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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sussex Students Union defames Dr Kathleen Stock **Title Edited by MNHQ**

77 replies

TheBiologicalWoman · 09/07/2018 21:59

I'm livid. It's all over Twitter.

www.sussexstudent.com/news/article/ussu/Statement-from-University-of-Sussex-Students-Union-Exec/

OP posts:
NotMeOhNo · 10/07/2018 11:54

University administrations must be loving identity politics. While student unions are busy quibbling over this kind of inconsequential shit vice-chancellor can get on with their neoliberal agendas unhindered.

NotMeOhNo · 10/07/2018 11:55

*vice-chancellors plural. Fucking autocorrect doesn't believe there can be more than one of them.

PeakPants · 10/07/2018 11:59

Solidarity with you Kathleen if you read this.

R0wantrees · 10/07/2018 12:09

Rose of Dawn, produced a video identifying & discussing the TRA thread which runs through Action for Trans Health, some prominant NUS officers, Antifa & the assault on Maria Machlaclan.

Rose of Dawn is transsexual and was invited to the GenderQuake debate but, like many others with in the audience with important perspectives, not given the opportunity to speak.

She writes about the video:
'What Does Co-Opting The Trans Movement Look Like?'
"Radical far-left activists often co-opt unrelated movements to enforce their ideology on others. Here, I take a look at this phenomenon taking place in the trans community.

Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/Rose_Of_Dawn "

YetAnotherSpartacus · 10/07/2018 12:23

While student unions are busy quibbling over this kind of inconsequential shit vice-chancellor can get on with their neoliberal agendas unhindered

The two are linked. Much of the TRA discourse privileges the kinds of concepts prevalent in neoliberal ideology such as individual choice, experience, identity, etc. Much of the neoliberal 'education' provided by universities these days privileges exactly the same concepts. Education is 'all about the learner' and thus about identity and introspection and opinion and students are encouraged to complain when they are actually encouraged to think or when they are challenged by ideas they find distasteful, hard or threatening.

I think there is only one vice-chancellor and they have been cloned many times because they are all the same and paid too much.

TerfAndSerf · 10/07/2018 12:27

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1016573581390688256?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

'Quote' taken out of context and made before any Pride march happened.

aaarrrggghhhh · 10/07/2018 15:53

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3298063-To-ask-if-you-think-it-is-controversial-to-say-that-a-person-with-male-genitalia-should-not-be-allowed-to-use-changing-rooms-used-by-people-with-vaginas

This is a thread I started about how the Brighton newspaper the Argus reported it. I just wanted to confirm that the majority of people did NOT think that Dr Stock's views are controversial. Spoiler alert - almost everyone agrees with her....

Noqont · 10/07/2018 16:42

Trans and non-binary lives are not a debate

Wrong. People can debate about anything they choose to. Absolutely anything. Regardless of how unpalatable it may be to some.

PeakPants · 10/07/2018 16:47

Trans and non-binary lives are not a debate

But in all other areas, it seems that we have to accept there is a debate. We have to accept that some people have religious views opposed to homosexuality, or that some doctors will refuse to sign off on abortions due to religious reasons. We don't threaten these people with murder and violence, do we?
Plus Kathleen is not debating their right to exist at all. She is debating whether we should unquestioningly accept male bodies in female spaces just because they say they feel female inside. In what crazy parallel universe is that not an issue that should at least be debated?

PeakPants · 10/07/2018 16:48

Fuck me, we even had a debate on This Morning over whether women should be allowed to fly planes. Now THAT is something I think is not a debate, yet it evidently was.

53rdWay · 10/07/2018 16:50

Trans and non-binary lives are not a debate

I would genuinely like one of these statements to come with footnotes explaining what on earth they mean by this kind of thing. In what way is Dr Stock threatening people’s lives? Is she a Roman emperor at a gladiator match deciding on who lives or dies? Confused

53rdWay · 10/07/2018 16:55

And how would it work with any other conflicting philosophy?

“Atheists and religious people disagree on the existence of souls.”
“ATHEIST LIVES ARE NOT A DEBATE!”

“I think capitalism is an inherently oppressive system that humanity needs to outgrow.”
“TAXPAYERS’ LIVES ARE NOT A DEBATE!”

?

SPOFS · 10/07/2018 17:01

I'm vegan and an animal rights activist. To me, the issue of eating meat should not be a debate because I think it is morally unjustified. However, clearly most people don't agree with me, so I have to debate the issue, whether I like it or not. I don't mind debating because I know that I have the better facts, research, and argument.

If there is so much science and research into the concept of transgenderism, then show it. We obviously can't se it, so point us in the right direction!

R0wantrees · 10/07/2018 17:08

Fuck me, we even had a debate on This Morning over whether women should be allowed to fly planes.

On the same show as India Willoughby discussing their plastic surgery?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3302512-India-Willoughby-has-had-facial-feminisation-surgery

aaarrrggghhhh · 10/07/2018 17:23

Fuck me, we even had a debate on This Morning over whether women should be allowed to fly planes

Really?? Not to hijack - but what on earth where the issues being contested??

PeakPants · 10/07/2018 17:26

Really?? Not to hijack - but what on earth where the issues being contested??

Some dumbfuck (female) journalist troll made the argument that women might be pre-menstrual or be worrying about their kids so would not be great in control of an aircraft. The entire thing was a joke but they had a proper debate with a female airline pilot who was like 'wtf is this'. I hope it was slightly tongue in cheek but surely nobody would ever in a million years have even a lighthearted debate saying that black people should not be allowed to do certain jobs.

PeakPants · 10/07/2018 17:27
SentimentalGift · 10/07/2018 17:28

I believe there is no right or wrong way to put loo roll on the holder, others have different opinions.

#LooRollHoldersNodebate

LOO ROLL REPLACERS LIVES ARE NOT A DEBATE

slidingintooldage · 11/07/2018 08:10

We could email the vice chancellor professor Adam tickell to express support for dr stock

[email protected]

Melanippe · 11/07/2018 08:41

PeakPants I hadn't seen that "debate" but the pilot's face is a picture throughout.

LookTwoFingers · 13/07/2018 15:41

She hasn't been hateful, don't be hateful to her, leave her to get on with her job.

www.sussex.ac.uk/staff/newsandevents/?id=45388?ref=email

aaarrrggghhhh · 13/07/2018 15:58

So the Vice Chancellor disagrees with Dr Stock’s views. Well he made it very clear what his view is. Cripes.

loveyouradvice · 13/07/2018 16:02

Nicely balanced article.... I felt....included

I have also reflected upon a situation involving an academic member of staff here at Sussex and the concerns raised by some members of our community on the views that she has shared on the Gender Recognition Act, which the government is currently consulting on.

The academic in question has come under fire for articulating views, informed by her philosophical research and scholarship, on the laws and customs surrounding gender identity. Although she has stated that she is fully supportive of the rights of everyone to identify their own gender, she has also raised questions about where boundaries should be set and these have provoked strong feelings and, in some cases, accusations. It’s at this juncture I’ve felt uncomfortable about the implication that there may be something more sinister going on.

This situation is actually a telling example of how we can choose to call upon our values to inform how we act.

By celebrating inclusion, we must recognise the personal courage of the many individuals who come up against abuse or unacceptable behaviour - just because they are being themselves. I know it has been extremely difficult for many people in the transgender and non-binary community to hear the views held by our academic.

But for me, alongside this, we must also be kind to those people who are brave enough to share their own views – and respect the courage they have for doing so. Whether it is one of our academics or another member of staff, or one of our students, I feel very strongly that we must respect their right to free speech. I hold a deep-rooted concern about the future of our democratic society if we silence the views of people we don't agree with – even if our disagreements are vehemently opposed.

Please do not misunderstand me, I am certainly not saying these discussions are easy. I thought very hard about writing this message as I know that there will be some who disagree with what I am saying. But I wouldn’t feel that I was living up to my own ideals about integrity if I didn’t say something on this subject.

So, as our campus community looks ahead to see how we can live by our institutional values in the workplace, I would ask those with different views and understandings to please show kindness to each other. Nobody should be silenced and we must truly listen to the multitude of voices that speak out on matters. But rather than do so from different corners, we should come together and do this respectfully.