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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do educators make of what is happening in our schools?

147 replies

imwideawake · 09/07/2018 21:03

I wonder what Head Teachers, teachers (and anyone else involved in the nurturing and educating of our young people) are really thinking about the worrying way in which activists have turned their attention to children and have successfully infiltrated the school system, to the point they seem to be having having a very real and disturbing influence on young impressionable minds and their bodies.

What do they make of this mass bombardment of our children - encouraging children to go down the trans route, instead of leaving them be - to dress and behave how they want to, and to grow up with minimal interference to their minds and bodies.

The constant scaremongering of parents by so-called experts. The rolling out of dubious stats as a threat as to what might happen if the parents don't listen to the current advice.
Children taking hormone blockers when the long term effects haven't been properly tested.
Children being encouraged to mutilate their perfect bodies.

Frankly, I'm horrified that children appear to being used in some massive social experiment and I would would hope that people involved in education, more so than most, would at the very least question the advice that's being given out instead of blindly following things without questioning as to whether those things are right.
I appreciate that schools are sometimes bullied into following the current guidelines and are stuck between a rock and a hard place - we live in an environment, whereby to question and go against the flow could cause a person to lose their job, but what are they really/privately thinking?

Surely they can't all have been brainwashed!
These are serious times.
It really is a case of
Leave them Kids Alone!

Maybe this should have gone in Staffroom.

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 14/07/2018 08:59

I never take such comments personally.

R0wantrees · 14/07/2018 09:09

This shouldn't be a surprise to you Bespin I have described that I have professional experience of working with safeguarding. Having appropriate personal boundaries is a fundemental requirement in good practice.

cf my comments:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3284251-Lisa-Muggeridge-Suspended-by-Twitter-and-Quoting-her-breaches-MN-Guidelines

Bespin · 14/07/2018 09:13

R0wantrees totally agree, it's why I can stay in this forum as I can on the whole keep my boundaries though have to acknowledge that as its more personal to me this can sometimes be hard. though reflection and acknowledgement are also key to effective practice

R0wantrees · 14/07/2018 09:17

Of course refelective practice and effective supervision are crucial.

I think though for many reasons this has become less valued /prioritised and the consequences are serious. It has been discussed on the thread about safeguarding failures:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

Bespin · 14/07/2018 09:27

I think though for many reasons this has become less valued /prioritised and the consequences are serious

I totally agree with this and find the difference between health where this is still highly valued and social. care were it is less so probably due to work load and cost frustrating on occasion.

R0wantrees · 14/07/2018 09:33

As I think I said yesterday, it would be better for discussions about this to be on the Safeguarding thread.

This one was started for educators.

There is of course overlap.

Bespin · 14/07/2018 09:38

R0wantrees yes totally agree so will end this here, I missed the start of thst thread and a lot of the points I would discuss have already so unless something comes up on there I feel I missed that wave. but there is always another.

Kyanite · 14/07/2018 10:16

I wonder if church schools will be the way forward in future.

Bespin · 14/07/2018 10:18

I often wonder if community based school will come back where teachers are part of that community and the school is run by the community as a whole. with less state control

SarahCarer · 15/07/2018 21:17

@Bespin I apologise. I probably did read too much into your comments. I live in fear of my dd being introduced by an adult to the wrong brain/body narrative and this makes my very wary of people working in this field. Please don't introduce it to children. I will watch the Dispatches episode you mentioned.

Bespin · 15/07/2018 22:16

Sarah Carer I have never talked to a young person in these terms and never will. the wrong brain/body narrative is an out dated concept and I am always uncomfortable when someone uses it. young people are supported best in a safe excepting environment that allows them to form their own identity in a positive way.

SarahCarer · 15/07/2018 22:22

That's reassuring Bespin thank you

UpstartCrow · 15/07/2018 22:22

That's not how children develop, they choose role models. All adults have a responsibility to be good role models.

Bespin · 15/07/2018 22:25

UpstartCrow totally agree with that too so I always try to be a good one and show that when they push that I will still care about them and help them with there issues. I hope that is something we can all agree on.

Bespin · 15/07/2018 22:28

UpstartCrow sorry we are probably as cross purposes I'm meaning young people as in 11 to 18 you probably mean 1 to 10s different developmental stage

R0wantrees · 16/07/2018 00:15

All adults have a responsibility to be good role models.

also with any young person 11-18 as Bespin, as I'm sure you will know they are defined as a child.

R0wantrees · 20/07/2018 08:35

Yesterday, @Redtoothbrush added important information to the end of the safeguarding thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo?msgid=79555499#79555499

There were two key releases yesterday which are very relevent. Both can be seen there.
(I have c&p)

Red wrote:
"I have another parliamentary statement for you today.

Women & Equalities Committee @Commonswomequ
In 2016 we reported on widespread sexual harassment of girls at school. Today our Chair @MariaMillerUK welcomes draft guidance for schools on Relationships and Sex Education to tackle this and says schools shouldn't wait to act on children's safety.

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/women-and-equalities-committee/news-parliament-2017/draft-guidance-relationships-health-education-schools-statement-17-19/
Reaction to draft guidance on relationships and health education in schools

Commenting on new plans published today by Education Secretary Damian Hinds, Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee, Maria Miller MP, said:

"The publication of the draft Relationships and Sex Education guidance is very welcome as a critical step forwards for children’s safety.

It follows our report on Sexual harassment and sexual violence in schools in 2016 which found that school is not a safe or equal learning environment for many children, especially girls.

Those working at the grassroots have known this for many years and it is positive that the Government is now starting to listen.

I would urge schools to start implementing the new RSE guidance as soon as is practicable and not wait until it is in force.

In addition, new safeguarding guidance on sexual violence will be in place this September so schools should prioritise making sure that their policies and procedures clearly address sexual harassment and sexual violence, and the culture that underpins them.

All children have the right to grow and learn in a safe and supportive environment.”

DfE @educationgovuk
All #schools will teach #children about good physical and #mentalhealth, how to stay safe on & offline, and the importance of healthy relationships under bold new plans published today by #Education Secretary @DamianHinds #RSE

Important point
The new guidance has been developed in response to a national call for evidence earlier this year and includes topics like mental wellbeing, consent, keeping safe online, physical health and fitness and LGBT issues. It will now be subject to a further 12-week consultation on the content and how the subjects are taught.
www.gov.uk/government/news/new-relationships-and-health-education-in-schools

Klaxon

Another 12 week consultation period over how children are taught about LGBT and consent issues* "

current parallel thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3311534-attention-draft-new-sex-and-relationships-education-guidelines?watched=1&msgid=79573937#79573937

R0wantrees · 20/07/2018 08:36

First announcement:
Redtoothbrush wrote:
Points from the Human Rights Committee Report:

6.Access to a court is an essential backstop for human rights; without legal jeopardy there is impunity for those who might abuse another’s human rights. However, in most cases this should be the last resort not the first. The most effective and efficient way to enforce human rights is to design and implement systems and laws that uphold human rights at the outset. A culture which understands and respects human rights is a necessary pre-condition for this.

One of the crucial arguments for allowing trans people into women's spaces is that if there is a problem women still have the law. This very much is odds with the report which stresses the emphasis that this should be the last resort, and at present the reality is that for many under current circumstances this does not exist. It stresses relance on other safeguarding structures to prevent the need to use the law. It makes the point that if you are going to court, there has already been a failure which should not have happened.

22.The ability to know about and enforce human rights is vital for the rule of law to be a reality. As well as the current review of the impact of legal aid reform in England and Wales, there is a pressing need for a much wider evaluation of the broader landscape of advice, support and means of resolution for legal problems to assess how they can collectively better serve individuals faced with a breach of their human rights. Such a process must also consider the economic viability of the whole system.

Too many institutions are giving out incorrect information with relation to women only spaces and women's right to them under the Equality Act. How can you know whether you have a case, if you are being told by state institutions things that contridict the law? This is not upholding the rule of law.

32.Rights of Women cited this quotation from a woman responding to a survey about legal aid they carried out in 2014/15:

“I earn a low income, yet I’ve been assessed as having too much disposable income [ … ] and when you aren’t eligible you’re expected to pay full solicitors costs - there’s no help anywhere in between. I’ve had to face my violent ex-partner in court twice now, and will have to continue to do so as I simply cannot afford costs “

Women are particularly disadvantaged because of the Sexism Pay Gap and their role in caring for children. They are not getting legal aid in domestic abuse cases. The system is stacked against them from the start.

The reality which is detailed at length is that many have to act for themselves in these situations. Some will be given advice and support from Women's Charities. But with so many of those charities now being hamstrung over their funding would they be able to give advice in cases which might involve issues relating to a situation that involves someone identifying as trans?

57.The removal of private family law from the scope of legal aid has had a very significant impact on children and their families. Article 12 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) provides that children should have ‘the opportunity to be heard in any judicial and administrative proceedings affecting [them], either directly or through a representative’. The UNCRC also states that the best interests of children should be the primary consideration in all decisions affecting them (Article 3 (1)).

Its very arguable that in having an affirmation only approach, the individual is taken out of the equation. Instead the interests of the group and dominant belief / outcome comes first above the individual circumstances of the child.

80.The fall in legal aid supply over the past three decades has led to the phenomenon of so-called ‘legal aid deserts’- geographical areas where legal aid advice is now unavailable in certain areas of law. In her oral evidence, Rachel Logan from Amnesty International UK gave these examples:

“[ … ] Take Devon and Cornwall. There is one small legal aid provider in Plymouth, as far as I understand it, for immigration law. It therefore deals with anyone in the entire region who has problems arising within that sphere, and it is an area of dispersal; it is an area where people are sent specifically who are trying to regularise their status or who have immigration questions. Similarly, in Oxford, as far as I understand it, there is only one firm, providing private family law.”

Which stresses the point about the law being inadequate as a fall back. Certain geographical areas are much more open to problems than others. This isn't equality. Decisions made by people living in say London where there is more availability of these services, have different practical implications for people living in other places.

84.Judicial independence is a central feature of the UK’s constitutional arrangements. The judiciary is one of the three pillars of our constitution, alongside Parliament and the executive. Each has its role and function, and together they complement each other to create the constitutional balance needed to support democracy, rule of law and the stable government necessary for peace and security. It is essential that the judiciary is impartial and independent of all external pressures so that those who appear before it, and the wider public, can have confidence that cases will be decided fairly and in accordance with the law.

There are big questions over the judge who handled the case of Maria MacLachlan's assault and what she was forced to say in court. Maria was the victim. How can victims have confidence if they are not allowed to speak their truth?

101.In written evidence to this inquiry Amnesty International UK gave its assessment:

“Successive UK Governments have failed to defend the rule of law in word as well as deed, both by failing to implement judgements in a timely fashion and by failing to defend an independent judiciary. The Lord Chancellor when appointed vows to uphold the independence of our judicial system and the rule of law. As such, the slow and lukewarm response to media attacks on judges following the Article 50 Brexit decision was worrying and disappointing.”

The rule of law in the press includes the implications of the Equality Act which protect sex as a class. This isn't happening. There is a demonisation of women in many newspapers.

133.Effective enforcement of human rights requires:

access to legal advice and assistance,
a robustly independent judiciary,
a robustly independent legal profession and
muscular human rights institutions.

134.But as Professor Vernon Bogdanor put it: “In the last resort, the preservation of our rights depends on popular support, not on institutional mechanisms.” This chapter looks at the support for human rights and the extent to which there is a “human rights culture” in the United Kingdom.

135.Martha Spurrier, Director of Liberty told us why she felt a human rights culture is integral to the enforcement of human rights:

“[ … ] while rights need not be popular, a sense of legitimacy and democratic buy-in is important. If there is a sense that such rights are in some way illegitimate or not credible, we will run into all kinds of obvious problems around how to enforce them and make sure that within communities the rights of others are respected.”

We are sleepwalking into a situation where women's rights are not viewed as legitimate and people do not value them. The culture is fundamentally stacked against women because of this.

137.A number of our witnesses cited research carried out by the Equality and Diversity Forum in 2012 on public attitudes towards human rights across the UK. This research found that while there are some (26%) who hold ‘strong hostile attitudes’ to human rights and human rights laws, and a similar number (22%) who hold ‘strong positive attitudes’, by far the largest proportion of those polled (over 50%) hold conflicting or neutral attitudes to human rights. This group are unsure whether human rights are relevant to their lives, but when this relevance is made clear their attitudes become more positive. There is also a widespread lack of understanding about how the HRA works; for example, about the fact that the Act does not permit courts to strike down primary legislation.

The majority of people don't get rights or understand them. Nor even care about them. This is exceptionally worrying. People do not understand how they are relevant to them personally. Human Rights are for other people.

138.In Scotland and Northern Ireland there are generally higher levels of support for human rights. In Scotland, a similar study to that described above, commissioned by the Scottish Human Rights Commission, found that 42% of those polled agree with positive statements about human rights and disagree with negative statements, while only 13% agree with negative statements and disagree with positive. In Northern Ireland the Human Rights Act enjoys high levels of support with 84% of the population believing it is good for Northern Ireland.

Here's a real shocker for you. The place which has fewest human rights and most right breechs understands rights most. This is so unsurprising.

141.Analysis of broadsheet and tabloid newspapers, political blogs and parliamentary speeches shows that the dominant media narrative links human rights with “undeserving” groups, such as foreigners, criminals or prisoners. They are frequently portrayed as undermining traditional freedoms and legal protections, rather than empowering and enhancing citizenship. The graphic below shows the frequency of different frames being used to discuss human rights in the media broken down by country.

Rights have a bad name in the press generally. They are framed by who deserves them and who doesn't. See graph.

R0wantrees · 20/07/2018 08:42

Redtoothbrush writes:
46.The Convention recognises that not all rights are absolute, and that sometimes rights have to be balanced one against another. Under the rule of law, it is the courts who have the job of deciding the balance in individual cases. It is perfectly legitimate for editorial content to argue that in a particular case a court has got that balance wrong, and that for example, action should be taken to change the law, or to defend existing law. But reporting itself should be accurate and enable readers to understand the broader context.

Reporting of trans crime.

A hierarchy of rights?
149.The Committee received submissions indicating that some rights are not given sufficient weight compared to others, which could undermine confidence in the human rights framework as some individuals feel their rights are not protected. ADF International commented that: “Freedom of conscience appears in all of the major human rights treaties” and submitted that “while freedom of conscience is a fundamental human right … the lack of a clear legal test to assess whether it has been violated in practice means that it is difficult to enforce.” and “recommends that the Government advances a legal test to evaluate claims of conscience to ensure the robust protection and enforceability of freedom of conscience in practice.”

Maria MacLachlan and her freedom of conscience anyone?

153.Government, NHRIs and human rights advocates should seek ways of engaging more effectively with the public about how different human rights are balanced, in order to address the perspectives that human rights are “for others and not for us” and that “political correctness” stifles debate. The Government should consider the introduction of a legal test to ensure that claims of conscience and faith are reasonably accommodated within the human rights framework. The rights of minority groups will always be vulnerable, and the acid test of an effective human rights system is that it must protect these groups, while ensuring the rights of the majority are also respected.

Balance, balance, balance!

154.Section 6 of the Human Rights Act obliges public authorities to act in conformity with Convention rights unless primary legislation requires them to do otherwise. According to written evidence received from Dr. Alice Donald, “Section 6 is–or should be–the primary driver of a human rights culture in the UK.”

155.The degree to which section 6 is performing this function appears to be patchy as it depends on awareness and training of public officials, which can vary according to the public authority. Martha Spurrier gave the example of the police’s approach to policing protests, as one where a human rights-based approach is embedded in public service delivery. By contrast, the evidence we heard recently in our inquiry into the detention of members of the Windrush generation suggests that this culture is not yet embedded in the immigration system. The Home Office’s approach to, and handling of, Windrush immigration cases suggests a culture in the Home Office that is not aware of s 6 and not informed by a human-rights based approach.

156.Public authorities are under a duty to act compatibly with the Human Rights Act (s.6), including in administrative decision making. However, as the case of the Windrush generation detainees demonstrates, this is does not always happen. Public authorities must comply with their duty under s.6 of the Human Rights Act in order to prevent breaches of individuals’ human rights

How shit hot are Council Run Swimming Pools on human rights? I'm thinking not very. Its not part of their training to think about balancing trans rights with women's and religious groups rights is it?

157.For an individual to enforce their human rights, they firstly need to know that they have rights, and secondly need to have a basic understanding of the rule of law. This knowledge is also a pre-condition for a thriving human rights culture. The central importance of education in relation to the legal system in general, and human rights in particular, came up repeatedly in the course of the inquiry. Currently levels of knowledge and awareness are very low. As Gareth Pierce told us:

“It is imperative, through any forum or opportunity, to begin to educate. National comprehension is at a very low level. We do not have a written constitution, so in our schools we do not grow up thinking, “I have rights”, with an understanding of why.”

158.In schools, human rights are currently part of the national curriculum at key stages 3 and 4. However, they are covered only ‘fleetingly’ as part of citizenship education and are not integrated across the curriculum. In academies and free schools that do not follow the national curriculum, there is no requirement to teach human rights at all.

159.We recommend that the Government should include comprehensive coverage of human rights across the curriculum at all key stages.

Schools are being educated to have a hierachy of rights. Hence policy that puts trans kids first. This is not teaching about the principles of human rights being balanced.

  1. No one would argue that individuals should not be protected from abuse by the State, that public bodies should be able to act without lawful authority or that torture, slavery and arbitrary detention are defensible. The UK’s legal framework allows individuals to protect their rights and gives the courts the task of deciding that balance in individual cases, within the parameters set by Parliament, which include the Human Rights Act. There is legitimate debate over how best to protect rights and where the balance should be struck if rights compete. But no-one should lose sight of the fact that enforceable rights, and the ability to enforce them, are the hallmarks of a civilised country. Government, Parliament, the media and the legal profession all have a responsibility to consider the importance of the rule of law, and the role that rights which can be enforced through an independent court system plays in that.

This was bolded. It should be capitalised and sent to every politician.

This is just me scooting through this.

MUCH it here to go to town on to strengthen a point."

R0wantrees · 26/07/2018 14:45

March 2018 article by Transgender Trend which demonstrates and discusses the role and influence of Transpire and its founder Gina Denham (police officer)

'Who Is Making Policy For Schools?'

(extract)
"The image above shows a presentation from a local Southend trans support group called Transpire, founded by a 54 year-old transsexual male called Gina Denham who teaches children that we all have a ‘gender identity’ which exists in the womb and is independent of both our socialisation and our biological sex. It is this ‘gender identity’ which makes us a boy or a girl and actually being male or female is irrelevant.

Transpire recently forced a school to change its policies in service of this ideology. Under the guise of ‘inclusion’ and ‘integration’ Gina Denham led an aggressive campaign to force a school in Rochford to remove sex-based rights and protections for its female students."
(continues)
www.transgendertrend.com/who-is-making-policy-for-schools/

R0wantrees · 13/08/2018 20:39

Stonewall are running training courses for both Primary and Secondary teachers:
From their website:
"This course gives teachers the confidence to support a trans young person in school, including ideas for best practice in creating a trans inclusive school in line with OFSTED and the Equality Act 2010.

Course objectives
Develop the confidence, skills and knowledge to train their colleagues on tackling transphobic bullying and creating a trans inclusive school
Gain an overview of the current experiences of young trans people in school and their impact on pupil achievement and school performance
Find out how to meet Ofsted and legal requirements under the Ofsted inspection framework and the Equality Act 2010"

www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/get-involved-education/creating-trans-inclusive-school-primary

It is important to be aware of Stonewall's position with regards the Equality act 2010 as detailed by JAmes Kirkup (Spectator):
In both 2015 & 2017 Stonewall sought to remove EA provisions allowing sex-based discrimination, detailed in thread:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1004635839480164352.html

Also to consider Stonewall's use of suicide statistics attached to the Primary School training page.

What do educators make of what is happening in our schools?
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