What do educators make of what is happening in our schools?

[imwideawake]

I wonder what Head Teachers, teachers (and anyone else involved in the nurturing and educating of our young people) are really thinking about the worrying way in which activists have turned their attention to children and have successfully infiltrated the school system, to the point they seem to be having having a very real and disturbing influence on young impressionable minds and their bodies.

What do they make of this mass bombardment of our children - encouraging children to go down the trans route, instead of leaving them be - to dress and behave how they want to, and to grow up with minimal interference to their minds and bodies.

The constant scaremongering of parents by so-called experts. The rolling out of dubious stats as a threat as to what might happen if the parents don't listen to the current advice.
Children taking hormone blockers when the long term effects haven't been properly tested.
Children being encouraged to mutilate their perfect bodies.

Frankly, I'm horrified that children appear to being used in some massive social experiment and I would would hope that people involved in education, more so than most, would at the very least question the advice that's being given out instead of blindly following things without questioning as to whether those things are right.
I appreciate that schools are sometimes bullied into following the current guidelines and are stuck between a rock and a hard place - we live in an environment, whereby to question and go against the flow could cause a person to lose their job, but what are they really/privately thinking?

Surely they can't all have been brainwashed!
These are serious times.
It really is a case of
Leave them Kids Alone!

Maybe this should have gone in Staffroom.

SarahCarer i have had many conversations over the years with parents in relation to issues like this and most parents are just overwhelmed and there are little or no services out there that actually appear to want to help them. Occasionally there are parents who not just with trans young people who really dont want to engage or are abusive to the young person. I identified trans young people because that is the topic of these boards. I could quite easily list the amazing things that i have found working with young people with ASD, who really do have an amazing outlook on the world and you can always learn so much from them if only we can learn to listen to them and understand what they are saying.
I am trying to reflect to you not that i think all adults are against young trans people but a lot of young trans people think that you are, i have had a lot of conversations where i try to get them to understand there parents perspective on this and why it might not be as simple for them. I am very mindful that when working with young trans people i am already in there tribe through virtue of being trans myself , this can be both useful as i am seen as coming from a place of understanding and not when i challenge some of there views on topics that they see as black and white.

i fully understand the points you make in relation to ASD and that young people with ASD and agree that

Children on the autism spectrum respond differently to social cues, fail to internalize gendered expectations and therefore see how they are being imposed on them where other children don't and they often have a very uncomfortable relationship with their bodies due to proprieception issues, fear of change (in puberty) and dyspraxia.

services are very much aware of this though the numbers of young people with ASD who are identifying as trans are high not all young people with ASD are suddenly identifying as trans, i have worked with a few young people who are and there presentation is interesting i dont think enough work as been done on how to work with these young people as they are very certain of who they are but that would be the case with most people with ASD once they have internalized something so it is very difficult to see where that as come from. i dont have an easy answer to that only that and i dont think services do there will undoubtedly be some young people with ASD like this and i think extra caution should be taken .

Also just because we are on these topics and i am passionate about this i will again highlight young people who are locked away in quite large institutions the conditions of which are quite bad, but because non of you see this no one is talking about it. young people should be in the community not locked away, more money and resources needs to be found to allow this to happen safely. when you lock them away they just internilise that they are other`ed from society and often end up in adult institutions without having a chance to function in society.

I would say that, in my experience, trans children do experience a lot of bullying. We had a case at our school where the students was thrown out of home and had to live with friends. It was awful. Her peers were really supportive.

So I do take umbridge with the idea that trans children are the most supportive. The care I saw from her friends was amazing. They really stuck up for her and looked after her in every way. School were also very supportive.

However, we had another trans student who went out of their way to cause issues. Did not like the school support, wanted to change with the girls before any social or physical transition started and used to flash girls and staff members in lessons. Was highly sexualised, wanted to wear skirts and make up that weren’t in the girls uniform list and complained of harassment when asked to comply to girls uniform (skirt length, make up and heels) and (partiality as a result of this) did suffer bullying. She, however, did not have a group of friends to support her and got a lot of support from pastoral leaders. Which was eventually thrown back in their faces.

Making sweeping generalisations about a whole group of people is very dangerous and unhelpful. That second student still accuses school of transphobia and bigotry. Are they right?

MissSusanSays i think i said some of the most, and totally agree there are a lot of young people who are amazing and supportive of others and this is not relected in the general pubic or media around young people in general. I worked with a group of young men who most people would see as very undesirable and although they often had issues with each other and very much with the rest of the world under all that they did genuinely care about each other and that developed more as they saw that the people around them were no different to them. Of course they would all want to get one other on us being in the place of authority lol

i would agree that there are some young people out there that do not want our help no matter how much they might need it, and it is those ones that we should never give up on, ever they are waiting for us to do that.

Making sweeping generalisations about a whole group of people is very dangerous and unhelpful. That second student still accuses school of transphobia and bigotry. Are they right?

to answer that no they are not right, but neither should we discount them, or simply stop caring about them because they make it hard for us to do so, i agree that if they make it so hard for a service to function than another serivice needs to be found that is set up to meet there need. often young people are managed in services that are designed to meet a generalized need when ideally individualized work is needed. The young person you discribe sounds like they have other issues which are not related to there presentation of trans, but that they are using that to act out other issues that would need addressing.

www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Transgender-Trend-Resource-Pack-for-Schools.pdf

I'm wide awake yes we are all aware of that pack that was completed by no recognised professionals or organisations, and is the equivalent of the advise we are discussing on here and not based in an actual approach to young people that would be used in reality

I am Truely amazed that not one person as even commented on the other issues I have raised around young people and there detention in institutions considering that people are so concerned about safeguarding young people on here

Bespin there is a substantive thread currently running about child protection and safeguarding. It was linked to previously on this thread which is focussed on educators. Perhaps you haven't read it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

R0wantrees no I have read that one in part but it is hard to keep up with multiple posts that are around simular or turn into simular issues.

The 'similar issues' being concerns about the systemic failings of safeguarding frameworks and risk to vulnerable adults, young people and children?

right sorry jaur had a read of the end of that one it is talking about exemptions and people not wishing to be checked for safegurding. I would not wish to employ anyone who had a issue with that and all people that work in these areas have enhanced dbs checks which being trans does not effect, apart for sometimes why have a number you can call if you are unsure about how to disclose your history in the check though I've never had a problem with them.

R0wantrees yes totally agree around the systemic failure of safeguarding systems a lot of my work is picking up the mess that is often left behind when it fails to act in a joined up way. or too slowly or no one takes responsibility for it

Have missed this as a parent and secondary school teacher in Scotland... 🤔

So bespin what do you say to trans organisations telling schools to ignore their safeguarding rules for gender non conforming children? They just call women 'transphobic' when we ask why?

Bespin
Perhaps better to join the thread I linked previously? There are many of us here with safeguarding experience.

This is of course a shared responsibility and concern with education, hence why the threads were linked previously.

An Ed Psych was asked her views on this in an AMA and got the thread deleted rather than answering; I think that’s very worrying.

Bespin I haven't watched the Dispatches episode you mentioned so can't comment. I know nothing of the situation you describe (with minimal details given). I have my own activism going on and it's wrong for you to speak to other posters who are all of one mind and intimate that we don't care about children as much as you do. You are investing in your own identity as 'virtuous child-helper' in contrast to 'us' non virtuous child-ignorers. This is how people work on their own identities and build satisfaction with themselves by contrasting themselves to others and presenting themselves as virtuous (they hope) in the eyes of other people. On the other thread, when people expressed concern that children identifying as trans are boxed into it by stereotypes, homophobia and intolerance you stated that the children were being judged by the posters on that thread. You are seeing adults as being against trans identifying children when they're not.

As for autistic children I am glad to hear those you work with are cautious about what you discuss with them. Some of the standard professional advice I have read which is addressed to professionals working in the field actually suggests that you shouldn't expect autistic children to present as fully trans before you allow them to socially transition because they are more black and white in their thinking. Other academic papers suggest that autistic children have an "extreme male brain". Some of the proper professional guidance around it is just horrifying.

The reader has to identify the 'correct' answer from four possible responses - unbelievably the 'correct' answer is for the teacher to offer help and to reassure the girl that she can talk to the teacher in confidence. The teacher is advised that only if the child is distressed and there is evidence of self harm, should this be reported.

@enoughisenough12
*
Bloody hell. Off to look this up now.
I'm back to school from MAT leave next week. Feel like I'm going to have a lot of things to do...*

Argh, as usual Mumsnet helping me find these things. GIRES is confusing . Have attached a photo of one of the things that jumped out at me.
I wrote this email to them:

Good evening,

I am an assistant head teacher looking at your resources, could you help me to fully understand what you are saying?

It seems to me (although forgive my ignorance, the last time I studied gender was at university in 2003) that sex and gender are at times being used interchangeably which I’m sure you know they are not. Also- I’m confused as to why the KS3 lesson tells children “it’s your brain that tells you you’re a boy or a girl” surely it’s their genitals that tell them what sex they are? Their gender might be expressed in all sorts of ways, but many women feel detached from traditional femininity during puberty... suggesting that this feeling means they are transgender appears to me to be problematic.

I’m keen that these issues are clarified and approached with fairness and transparency in our schools, could you clarify your position on the issues I have raised.

Thank you,
LanguageAsAFlower

Sarah Carer you have made a lot of assumptions about me from a few posts on here and I feel that you are simply trying to show that I am clinically not responsible. in no way do I think people do not care about young people on here I am mearly stating other young people who are vulnerable who also require help and support. it is a real shame you are unaware of the young people in that documentary or are not willing to even investigate it due to it coming from a post by me.

The whole investing in my identity thing is an interesting way of putting it, in no way do I think i am vurtious in this and I am certainly not infallible. I would hope that all practitioners are invested in there profession and would be suprised if they were not. A lot of the attributes you equate with me would be considered positives and in my last interview was the reason I got the job. do. you not. want people who are passionate about what they do, and who want to promote the struggles of the young poeple they work with.

a lot of the posts on these forums assume a lot about trans people and trans young people without even meeting them or working with them. so you forgive me if the impression I get is that people on here are not supportive of trans young people in general.

finally the people around me and including me are cautious around this area please do not try to paint me as diffent to other professionals in my field. I find that your tone is disengenius in relation to this and have enter into these discussions as you appeared to have an interest in ASD presentations, if you are mearly wanting to show me in this light then I feel that our discussion is at an end.

I think it very much depends on the school. There is no teaching of gender identity in my school (Catholic, which may be relevant) and I have discussed my gender critical views with the Head and the safeguarding lead and they were very receptive. I've also given them the transgender trend schools pack.

We had one student wishing to transition (ftm) a few years ago but it was just before she left the school so we dodged the bullet on working out how we (as a girls' school) should respond. Our student body are mainly black African and I don't think the social contagion has reached that community (hope it never does!).

My daughter starts school next year and I am terrified of things she might be told. the

I realise my post sounded very uncaring. The girl was very unhappy, lesbian and had asd and I was very worried for her going down this path. I have no idea how things are for them now.

Bespin

You've posted a great deal.

A lot of people read carefully what is written on this forum and elsewhere and reflect on it.

One of the differences, and strengths of Mumsnet (as opposed to othe SM platforms) is that threads remain accessible and it is unusual for posts/ threads to be deleted.

There are a great number of discussions with links to useful resources which people can access.

R0wantrees

Totally the issue of children in institutions is an import one I hope people go Enguge with away from this stuff.

Bespin

Many of us are, have been for many years and will continue to be.

Well I'm glad about that those posts are not aimed at you then but other people who are not and there are a lot of them out there unfortunately who don't see these young people