Lesbians protest at London Pride #getthelout

[miri1985]

twitter.com/hashtag/getthelout?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Ehashtag

www.facebook.com/346828442474237/posts/403582420132172/

These women are bloody brave, if I was wearing a hat I'd tip it to them

Great evasion to my questions (which tried to show to you that of course there "so-called-transwomen" depending on how you define them).

But in answer to yours - why would it offend me if someone called me a so-called feminist?

If I didn't fit the label then I wouldn't be one. If I did then I would be.

I might be mildly curious as to how they defined it, but secure enough in myself to not feel cross if I didn't fit their definition.

This is one of the things I don't get - the lack of logic, the personal offended feelings over labels. The "I'm not a woman, so you need to redefine it so that I now am" attitude. As an autistic person, it's baffling to me.

Weren't we called 'purported feminists' by Aunt Lydia in Chief, Maria Miller?

Weren't we called 'purported feminists' by Aunt Lydia in Chief, Maria Miller?

Indeed, and yet we didn't collapse, distraught at such a slight. Funny that, eh?

Plectrum "And the verbal abuse they got from TW (as well as a bottle thrown at them) is what? "

For the avoidance of doubt, I condemn all acts of aggression, verbal abuse and violence from anyone.

"This policing of language to silence women speaking out is so utterly boring and predictable."

I'm not sure why you consider my questions to be policing of language or silencing. Last time I looked we were on a thread discussing the action, of which the leaflet is part.

I'm asking what people here think of the content of the leaflet, not denying you a voice or saying it should not have been handed out. Accusations of policing and silencing are useful and valid in many cases, but if they are misused a lot in context like this they will surely lose potency.

Yes, I changed my name rather childishly to very near a TRA name because I was so angry about the gloating but couldn't express it to the posters on here. I came over all unnecessary! However I have calmed down now 👍

Datun In terms of 'so-called' transwomen, it could be as you say, I can’t speak for the wonderful women who protested.

Though many lesbians (my self included) who do not subscribe to transgender ideology, do not accept the terms associated with the ideology. We believe calling one’s self trans is rather like calling one’s self a catholic, methodist etc, we don’t subscribe to their terms, because we don’t subscribe to their ideology. Many of us also believe that using the terms of a harmful ideology, actually further entrenches the ideology, so we don’t do it. Again I can’t speak for the women who protested, but that is how I feel, and I know others feel the same.

I agree with you stop.

TheFemaleGaze From what I've seen about the Stonewall riots, it is a rewriting of history to call Johnson and Rivera 'transwomen' as they both identified as gay men. You wouldn't know that by looking at wikipedia etc though. Can't find the link to the interview in which one of them said this now, but on the Equality Archive there is a telling line: 'today both Rivera and Johnson should be understood as women'.

Just why? Is it possible to go back and retrospectively announce that people who never called themselves women and did not believe themselves to be were in fact women?

"Weren't we called 'purported feminists' by Aunt Lydia in Chief, Maria Miller? Indeed, and yet we didn't collapse, distraught at such a slight. Funny that, eh?"

Context is important here though.

If it were a case of referring to the whole class of feminists as "purported feminists" in disparaging terms within literature handed out at the front of a major annual parade celebrating feminism in all its many forms then that would be a more valid comparison.

Collapsing distraught is exaggeration of course. We're talking about it being hostile, antagonistic or inflammatory language, not the end of the world is nigh.

When the Govt appointed person responsible for legislation that affects trans people dismisses them as fakes, then you can dismiss Maria's comments as not very serious.

@chaotica
I wonder if RuPaul thinks of himself as a woman...

Super I'm a lesbian too. A female born lesbian, never had any relationship with a trans woman in my life but the most grief I am getting at the moment is from GC feminists.

Disingenuous bullshit, if ever I heard disingenuous bullshit. Nobody, but nobody argues with that much dedication unless they have skin in the game.

In that context, a "lesbian never had any relationship with a transwoman" is clearly HIDING SOMETHING.

So either not a (female/lesbian) or not (had a relationship with). My hunch, the former, not the latter. Mainly I base that upon reading the content of the very porny AMA thread. That was 'beautiful' btw, hoisted the colours to the mast.

I am female (since the moment of conception). I am woman (since the age of 18-20). I am probably also an old woman by most people's reckoning. And, I am a lesbian. By virtue of which, I automatically exclude everyone born with a penis from my 'dating' pool. Full stop, no negotiation on that point at all. This also includes people with inverted penises. And of course, the male socialisation with goes with the penis-born package. Lesbianism is by virtue, an exclusive position, not an "inclusive" one.

No - is not the start of a negotiation. It is a complete sentence, and does not mean 'convince me'. If ANY woman is NOT allowed sexual/romantic boundaries, then it very much is rape culture. That is what rape culture actually means.

Indeed, and yet we didn't collapse, distraught at such a slight. Funny that, eh?

Oh, context is suddenly important when it comes to women being called names. Who'da thunk it.

The attitude towards history is so dismaying. I am listening to A Time Travellers Guide to Tudor England at the moment, and the author spends a great deal of time at the beginning explaining how important it is to develop your understanding of history by putting yourself in the shoes of people it was happening to as it happened: what did they think and feel, how did they perceive their world? Only then can you hope to understand it.

This is the complete opposite: it's taking contemporary sensibilities, contemporary perceptions and interpretations of the world, then looking back in history and retro-fitting these explanations onto people and times who would NEVER in a million years have thought of themselves and their world in those terms. See also: re-writing stories of women who disguised themselves as men to get on in the world be retconned as being trans. NOPE.

It's ridiculous.

Knowing next to nothing about this, have been reading this thread in some confusion. So is the gist of it that Transgender are pushing/bullying to have sex with lesbians?

Yeps

Collapsing distraught is exaggeration of course. We're talking about it being hostile, antagonistic or inflammatory language, not the end of the world is nigh.

Yes quite. So maybe they, and you, should get over it, as we had to?

For those asking, I would not use the expression so-called transwomen, because the so-called bit carries additional meaning that in this context is really hostile and disparaging of trans people

You'd be happier if biological sex was used instead? What term would you like women fundamentally opposed to trans ideology to use?

The problem with 'so called trans women' is that it includes the term 'women'. Not a word that should be used about people with a Y.

Welsh: yes they are. They say it's bigoted not to accept penis. Here are two twitter examples, along with a quote from a young lesbian who is traumatised by the bullying.

Mother of God, that is giving rape the thumbs up. Now I am mad, they really haven`t left their testosterone fuelled entitlement behind have they!!!

wonderful how it would feel to you (collective GC posters) if someone opened a conversation by referring to you as so-called 'feminists'. Do you honestly not think that might get your hackles up?

Goodness, I thought the various responses about MM saying exactly that were a clever on point response to SuperDandy's pearl clutching about "so called". I didn't realise that SD had already blundered into it

TheFemaleGaze

I'm not up to speed with the origins of Stonewall, although I do know it is being disputed.

Apparently one of the people dressed in women's clothes, but as a form of drag, and just before they died confirmed that they are male. This person is being appropriated, I think that's what's happening.

I know. And supported by people like Sadiq Khan.