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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

A call to MNHQ to find £12 per staff member for the Freedom Programme

76 replies

UglyCathKidstonBag · 05/07/2018 13:07

Moderators on such a large site clearly have their work cut out for them. Many members of MN have suggested @MNHQ fund the small cost to train their moderators to spot and deal with coercive and controlling behaviour. Such behaviour constitutes violence and abuse that leads to mental health issues and feelings of worthlessness.

The Freedom Programme have lots of information online www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/training.php

I believe this training would be beneficial to your staff not only in FWR but across large swathes of Mumsnet.

OP posts:
UglyCathKidstonBag · 05/07/2018 15:45

Bouncing because I really think this is something important that MN should be invested in.

OP posts:
UpstartCrow · 05/07/2018 15:47

I think its essential now.

Laniakea · 05/07/2018 15:48

this would be tremendously useful @MNHQ

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 05/07/2018 16:18

Such a tiny cost, and such useful knowledge. All women profit from being trained in recognition of abusive behaviour patterns. Statistically, even if you are lucky enough never to be on the receiving end of abuse, sooner or later you are going to come across a relative, friend or work colleague who will benefit from your knowledge and support.

When multiple women tell you that moderating decisions are enforcing abusive behaviour patterns the very least you can do is investigate the possibility.

R0wantrees · 05/07/2018 16:24

See also @womanformallyknownaswoman 's resources on the thread below.

OP writes:

What's essential is dealing with reports and complaints of any kind is discerning between a usual, a persistent and a querulant (unusually persistent) complainant.

The persistent complainants’ pursuit of vindication and retribution fits badly with complaints systems established to deliver reparation and compensation. Extract from a report on Unusually Persistent Complainants against the Police in Scotland:

The research on which this report is based arose from my view, shared by many others, that increasingly organisations are required to manage people who make persistent complaints. This small group of individuals can consume a disproportionate amount of an organisation’s resources, pursuing what they believe are legitimate complaints, for longer and with more intensity than the majority of the population would consider reasonable.

The key to managing unacceptable complainant conduct is to manage your own response to it (New South Wales Ombusdman, 2009A) and the importance of adequate training, supervision and managerial support for complaints handlers can not be overstated.

They used the term ‘querulousness’ to refer to a constellation of behaviours and attitudes, which may, or may not, arise secondary to a major mental disorder. The key is that it is a problem behaviour, the causes of which can be many and varied. The behaviour involves “the unusually persistent pursuit of a personal grievance in a manner seriously damaging to the individual’s economic, social, and personal interests, and disruptive to the functioning of the courts and/or other agencies attempting to resolve the claims” (Mullen and Lester, 2006).

The following extract is from the report in NSW referenced in the Scottish one above:

Appendix 1 – A word on unusually persistent complainants (querulants)

Querulance is a psychiatric diagnosis for people who have morbid (illness driven) complaining behaviour. These people are abnormally driven by suspicion and accusations and tend to exhibit extreme kinds of UCC. For example, when compared to a matched control group, querulants have been found to:

•Pursue their complaints for much longer than other complainants.
•Produce far greater volumes of material in support of their case.
•Telephone more frequently and for longer.
•Intrude more frequently without an appointment.
•Continue complaining after their cases have been closed.
•Engage in behaviour that was typically more difficult and intimidating.
•Involve other/external organisations more often including contacting Ministers as their complaints progress.
•Want outcomes that a complaint handling system cannot deliver – eg vindication, retribution and revenge. 


The research in this area also indicates that one of the distinguishing features of querulance is an extreme loss of focus over time that results in querulants pursuing multiple complaints at the same time and across a number of organisations as demonstrated in the charts below.

imgur.com/a/2TklcY

more on thread;
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241727-Weaponising-of-the-Complaints-Process

UpstartCrow · 13/07/2018 22:57

Bump.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 13/07/2018 23:00

This is a brilliant suggestion.

newtlover · 13/07/2018 23:09

I think this is an excellent idea and rather than pay for staff to do the onlline course I would suggest pay a facilitator to come in and deliver the programme live, to a group, much more effective and depending on numbers no more expensive

AdventuresRUs · 13/07/2018 23:11

Yes. Will mnhq see this? Can we tag?

MrsFogi · 13/07/2018 23:17

I"ve reported the post so that MNHQ will see it. Great idea.

crunchermuncher · 13/07/2018 23:26

Excellent idea

UglyCathKidstonBag · 13/07/2018 23:31

Thanks for bumping everyone. I’m going to keep bumping until I have a response from @MNHQ

With some of the threads in the last few weeks where we have been told 2 women dying per week due to domestic violence isn’t a lot and that women can just tell coercive men to go away, I think there needs to be training I specifically dealing with these types of people.

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 14/07/2018 00:51

This would make their job so much easier for them.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 14/07/2018 03:39

The need for training in coercive control control and querulous complainers for the mods, on here as elsewhere on sm, is glaringly obvious - those who seek to silence women know it too hence their gaming and abuse of the reporting system.

Also education in trolling methods - I have mentioned Bedford Uni as a centre of expertise in cyberstalking etc and the harm it causes(PTSD).

Learning to discern between Red Riding Hood and the Wolf online is very necessary, especially on MN where the users are overwhelmingly female and hence, by that definition alone, targets for abuse online and offline.

It's common sense but I'm always amazed at how women's needs are ignored.

UpstartCrow · 14/07/2018 09:57

Its more than 2 women dying every week. Refuge say 30 women attempt suicide every day as a result of DV.

www.lwa.org.uk/understanding-abuse/statistics.htm

BIWI · 14/07/2018 10:02

I think it's incredibly good value for this kind of training, and think your intention is laudable - but the implication of your OP is that MNHQ community team should be monitoring and moderating all the threads on here, which simply isn't possible.

They only read threads when they are reported. So it's reactive not proactive on MNHQ.

(But I think as a part of the community team's general training this would be a great idea)

OlennasWimple · 14/07/2018 11:59

I'd start by asking MNHQ to move this thread to Site Stuff, because it's not just a FWR issue

newtlover · 14/07/2018 19:01

what about it MN?

Ifeelreallylow · 14/07/2018 21:29

Rather then paying the £12 which gives you access to an online copy of the book.
Buy the book digitally from amazon at £8 and then pass it around the staff or host it for all to share.

Even less cost, and people can read while commuting/travelling.

TheHobbitMum · 14/07/2018 21:34

What a fantastic suggestion, I sincerely hope MNHQ take up the idea

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 14/07/2018 21:41

Great idea!

Also it may help to tighten up security around the relationships board, etc. Emmagate was a worry and it is important to realise that controlling men could use slip ups like Emma to track down former partners who have fled.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 15/07/2018 00:29

Thought this could use a bump...

DuddlePluck · 15/07/2018 00:45

I was referred to the Freedom Programe years ago by my health visitor, and attending it changed both my life (for the better) and my understanding of even the most subtle emotional, psychological & strategic abuse tactics I'd previously been subjected to but failed to 'see' or understand due to having been subjected to bog-standard female socialisation.

I've been shocked by the apparent lack of awareness of these strategies & patterns of behaviour by @MNHQ, and can only join the chorus of posters calling for staff to be required to attend formal training, so they can better recognise and thus more appropriately moderate this forum moving forwards.

TyneTeas · 15/07/2018 00:59

MNHQ will only see this if you post it in Site Stuff or if you report your thread, they don't read everything.

BettyFloop · 15/07/2018 01:18

As a DA specialist service provider I can only endorse this suggestion. I've seen so much classic abuser behaviour from some posters on this board attempting to shut women up/get this site closed down that's been (hopefully) unwittingly entertained by some of the mods that Freedom programme training can only be beneficial - for mods and posters alike.

I also think that, if MN can book her, Pat Craven would deliver a totally hilarious, no nonsense team building session for all the MN mods that would, ultimately, benefit all of us.

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