A call to MNHQ to find £12 per staff member for the Freedom Programme

[UglyCathKidstonBag]

Moderators on such a large site clearly have their work cut out for them. Many members of MN have suggested @MNHQ fund the small cost to train their moderators to spot and deal with coercive and controlling behaviour. Such behaviour constitutes violence and abuse that leads to mental health issues and feelings of worthlessness.

The Freedom Programme have lots of information online www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/training.php

I believe this training would be beneficial to your staff not only in FWR but across large swathes of Mumsnet.

This would be amazingly worth it. I've got a connection with a Freedom project and it's such an inspiring thing to learn about. Please enable all your staff to do this @JustineMumsnet please clamour for it @MNHQ
Good idea OP. Thanks so much for thinking of this and sharing.

Great idea!

^I've been shocked by the apparent lack of awareness of these strategies & patterns of behaviour by @MNHQ

This is a general site for chat. MNHQ do a great job facilitating the community here. I think it's pretty harsh to accuse them of not having specialist knowledge when they're not here to be DA (or any other kind of abuse) counsellors. What next? Do they all have to be trained in food hygiene for the numerous threads about how safe something is if it's on its use by date? Or general medicine, for all the health queries here?

While I think it's an interesting idea to provide some kind of training, just remember that MNHQ don't moderate threads or posts. They only step in if something is reported.

Sorry, formatting fail - the first paragraph above is a quote:

I've been shocked by the apparent lack of awareness of these strategies & patterns of behaviour by @MNHQ

Hi all,

Thanks so much for raising this - we'll discuss it in the office next week.

Just adding my name in agreement with this idea.

I think it's pretty harsh to accuse them of not having specialist knowledge when they're not here to be DA (or any other kind of abuse) counsellors. What next? Do they all have to be trained in food hygiene for the numerous threads about how safe something is if it's on its use by date? Or general medicine, for all the health queries here?

I think the point is not about the content of the threads but about the intent of some posters and how they use well known techniques that manipulate people in a similar way to how domestic abuse is carried out.

I think the point is not about the content of the threads but about the intent of some posters and how they use well known techniques that manipulate people in a similar way to how domestic abuse is carried out.

Exactly. Nothing to do with the specific accuracy of the content of posts. To identify behavioural red flags and abusive techniques.

Also it may help to tighten up security around the relationships board, etc. Emmagate was a worry and it is important to realise that controlling men could use slip ups like Emma to track down former partners who have fled.

Especially as that information is still available online.
I've reported it to the relevant site mods as doxxing, but I hope whoever had their IP address published has changed it by now.

Thanks so much for raising this - we'll discuss it in the office next week.

Good to hear, I do think it is needed.

Actually considering buying this for myself. i think I ma pretty good at spotting abusive behavior, having been with a fair few abusive men, and my mother being abusive also. However, more knowledge is always useful, to spot the warning signs and such before it gets to a later stage.

I think the point is not about the content of the threads but about the intent of some posters and how they use well known techniques that manipulate people in a similar way to how domestic abuse is carried out.

Exactly.

Thanks Lorna. It would be great to hear what MNHQ think, I feel this could be beneficial for the entire site not just FWR.

Thanks LornaMumsnet let us know how it goes

Glad to hear that, LornaMumsnet.

Also it may help to tighten up security around the relationships board, etc. Emmagate was a worry and it is important to realise that controlling men could use slip ups like Emma to track down former partners who have fled.

I wouldn't describe Emma as a "slip up". Emma did what she did with cool headed and callous deliberation.

Any update on this @Lornamumsnet @justinemumsnet @MNHQ?

Hi all, and sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

We understand that you're worried that people could try to game the reporting system, and that we might not be able to recognise when we're being manipulated. To an extent, we think time is the answer to this one - we hope your worries will gradually abate as you see us continue to make measured moderation decisions over time.

But we also hope it will be a bit reassuring to hear that we really did give all this a huge amount of thought when developing the guidelines. We went through many different scenarios, including various forms of the kind of manipulation that you're talking about, and their red flags. We've got lots of experience with manupulative/coercive behaviour already, and of course your reports add an extra layer of security.

Thanks for the suggestion though, and please do continue to report anything you'd like us to take a look at. Thanks too to everyone who's continued to express their POV on this topic within the guidelines over the last few weeks - it's much appreciated.

MNHQ

Seriously? You've said no to this? Seriously?????

It looks like the discussion was centered on gaming the reporting system, and not the people who abuse other posters.

Thanks but no thanks FWR regulars - we know it all - can't you tell?

@Katemumsnet

I ask you to reconsider. I probably shouldn’t have framed this as just an FWR issues (although it is a feminist issue) but I feel you would be well place to help a number of people on dire situations on the entirety of this site if MNHQ had this kind of training.
Have you ever looked at the domestic violence stats or the relationships board?

I’m not only very disappointed in you wholesale turning down this idea, I’m also very disappointed that you resorted to such a patronising reply.

Typos galore again. Blame exhaustion.

We've got lots of experience with manupulative/coercive behaviour already

With all due respect @KateMumsnet that comes across as both arrogant & dismissive. I doubt you or the mod team have the level of experience they'd gain from such a worthwhile course. And given the minimal cost, I have to question why you would dismiss this so easily, suggesting you and the others mods have nothing to learn on this topic.

Maybe they are spending all their spare £ on re-training staff to ensure they are not employing any more trolls

Hi @KateMumsnet, clearly there are issues with the moderation on Mumsnet, given that multiple homophobic posts have remained.

You have been asked to look at the overall behaviour of some members, yet clearly haven't.

Members have been upset by others comparing their infertility to that of a man who has chosen to take hormones, having their vaginas called "blind canals, seeing rape apologist posts, being labelled transphobic because of their sexual orientation. I could go on.

This has all been allowed due to fake cries of transphobia from TRAs. Your capitulation to these people means you now actually have bigotry on this site, that towards lesbians. It now means free reign for TRAs to abuse the genuine users on this site.

It's like me demanding a restaurant tailors their menu to me, when I don't even eat there. Ridiculous isn't it?

A disappointing decision. A more than disappointing decision.

I wonder what the average number of times a member reports an abusive or personal attack post, as requested by the mod team only to be told it is not a violation of the guidelines, before they stop reporting posts.
I realize that the decisions made on reported posts are subjective judgments, but by now the mod team must realize they are sending mixed messages to the members.
Interesting the mod team felt that talking among themselves was ample consideration when developing the guidelines, and that this should be reassuring to members.
I personally have been to many training sessions that I thought would be unproductive because I was a trainer of trainers. I never failed to learn something that was important to my work going forward.