Please can someone explain why the GRC process needs to be simpler?

[OlennasWimple]

I'm drafting my response to the GRC consultation. I know what I'm writing for the latter bits, where it gets into the interplay with the Equality Act and single sex spaces. But I'm getting quite cross with the first bits about the actual process and the cost of applying for a GRC. I fell like I must be missing something, because surely we aren't going through the whole consultation process - and hostile debate on self-ID - because some trans people don't want to fill out a lengthy form and pay a few hundred quid (or fill out a form to apply for a fee remission)?

This is a genuine question, not intended to be a re-hash of the arguments for or against self-ID, just a discussion on the actual process of applying and why it's so terrible at present.

It recognises that birth certificates and everything else use gender.

No they don’t. They record sex.

You think it's possible to change sex, Snappity? Really?

Well at least that’s given me a laugh. “In Malta BCs record gender” 😂

Do they ask the baby (fruitless) or the parents (ethically dodgy) 🙄

Snappity 10/10 fr energy but you’re ferociously defending a nonsense.

If it can work in Ireland, Malta, California, Argentina (and soon Scotland I predict) etc why can't it work in England and Wales? (What is so different about England and Wales that Self-ID won't work here when it works elsewhere? That's what those who object to Self-ID just can't answer.

No they don’t. They record sex.

Not in Malta it seems because following a change of gender (and that is definitely the case in Malta) birth certificates in the new gender are issued and the original sealed so that it can no longer be accessed by anyone.

You think it's possible to change sex, Snappity? Really?

Yes. Absolutely.

If it can work in Ireland, Malta, California, Argentina (and soon Scotland I predict) etc why can't it work in England and Wales?

What’s your definition of “working”. It might have been introduced into law in those countries (fairly recently) but that’s no proof of success. It’s too soon to assess success in any case.

Today 06:31 Snappity

You think it's possible to change sex, Snappity? Really?

Yes. Absolutely

Ok we are done. Go well.

Not in Malta it seems because following a change of gender (and that is definitely the case in Malta) birth certificates in the new gender are issued and the original sealed so that it can no longer be accessed by anyone.

Now you’ve veered into complete drivel.

Clearly neither you nor the Maltese legislature understand the meaning of the word “gender”.

You think it's possible to change sex, Snappity? Really?

Yes. Absolutely.

I suppose the answer rests on what your definition of sex is.
Is it a biological reality present in human genetics or is it a word that is only recognised legally therefore can be changed?

Sex is defined by your chromosomes, and pesky little transphobes that they are, they can’t be changed.
Parliament could, I suppose, pass a law saying that the moon is made of free cheese (and given the shower in there right now, perhaps they will). Wouldn’t make it true.

I suppose the answer rests on what your definition of sex is.
Is it a biological reality present in human genetics or is it a word that is only recognised legally therefore can be changed?

And surely that depends on context? If one is writing a biology text then changing sex is probably not possible, but if one is talking about legal rights then absolutely sex can be changed.

Iran is a good example of a socially conservative country. Homosexuality is illegal. But someone can change sex and go from it being illegal for them to have sex with men to the exact opposite.

Sex is defined by your chromosomes, and pesky little transphobes that they are, they can’t be changed.

No, sex isn't defined by chromosomes. That doesn't match real world experience.

Jesus Christ. You actually believe this stuff don’t you?
Sex is defined by your chromosomes. The expectations you - you, not me, because I don’t bother with this shit and don’t plan to start - attach to each sex are the issue here. Do what you like with those but don’t deman I buy in. I don’t believe in them anymore than I believe in god, unicorns or the international Jewish conspiracy.

No, sex isn't defined by chromosomes. That doesn't match real world experience

Of course it is. There is no “real world experience” more solid than science.

We know that some people feel distressed by their biological sex, we get that. But sex is biology.

It’s an embarrassingly shoddy piece of law making whichever side of the fence you’re on; It repeatedly conflates sex and gender then has a wooly stab at legislating a kind of transubstantiation into existence.

It needs to be repealed.

I have to say that the education system in this country has something to answer for in all this. No one who had the basic but solid grounding in the sciences that I was lucky enough to have could fall for this rubbish.
Thank god my kids are getting the same.

And surely that depends on context? If one is writing a biology text then changing sex is probably not possible, but if one is talking about legal rights then absolutely sex can be changed

There is no probably about it. Humans cannot change their biological sex.
Unless I missed that medical breakthrough?

Thats why i think it is important to keep the word sex to mean and only mean biological reality.
You are a biological sex 4 weeks after conception. The law does not even recognise you as a living human therefore there are no legal rights. So why should the law be used to change something that it cannot control and was not decided by any legislation originally?

It’s wilful stupidity Nan. Even a minority of doctors are joining in.

There is no probably about it. Humans cannot change their biological sex.

Humans can and do change biological sex. They don't change chromosomal sex but that is merely one attribute of biological sex.

Iran is a good example of a socially conservative country. Homosexuality is illegal. But someone can change sex and go from it being illegal for them to have sex with men to the exact opposite

Still 2 biological males having sex though isnt it? The legal recognition of a change in sex means so on paper. That does not make it a bioligical reality.

Should homosexuals be forced to live as "females" in order not to be murdered?
Is the legal deffinition helping to create acceptance and tolerance or is it just promoting deceit and fear to fit in with a collective ideal/religion?

Humans can and do change biological sex. They don't change chromosomal sex but that is merely one attribute of biological sex.

Its not don't its can't change their chromosomal sex.

Unless every aspect of a human can change from male to female or vice versa then a person is not changing sex are they?

I can dye my hair blonde so that I appear to be a blonde but genetically I am a brunette. That will always be the reality....until I go grey. Then the reality will be grey hair.

Well those doctors are career building. They see or think they see which way the wind is blowing and hope to profit from the ignorance and stupidity of the general populace.
On current evidence, probably quite sound planning on their part,

Sadly I think that’s pretty accurate nan.

Unless every aspect of a human can change from male to female or vice versa then a person is not changing sex are they?

I guess that you are in the fortunate position that all your attributes of sex are consistent? Some people are not so fortunate. Their genitals might not match their chrosomes. Their chromosomes might be complex, even mosaic. Their brain might be female in orientation but their genitals male. They might have male secondary characteristics but female primary sexual characteristics - or vice versa. Their hormones might be put of step - or complicated.

That's before we start adding on medical treatments.

Life for some people is complicated. The law should and does recognise that the world is complicated - but it is overly bureaucratic in doing so and that needs to be simplified.