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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Penny Mordaunt says questions women's groups are raising are 'completely legitimate'

14 replies

Wanderabout · 04/07/2018 07:16

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/09641ce3-8d86-489b-a1e9-d0d049e66fc4?in=13:53:01&out=13:55:58

“Those questions that womens groups are raising are completely legitimate. This needs to be a calm grown up conversation for the nation.

OP posts:

NaturalBornWoman · 04/07/2018 07:34

A conversation which starts from the premise that TW ARE women though.

Kyanite · 04/07/2018 07:35

She also said that the starting point is that "trans women are women"...which means it's only going to go one way.

therealposieparker · 04/07/2018 07:38

Argh. So many women have read something into this that doesn't exist. "Legitimate questions" is nothing in politics, it is meaningless. Why are people so damned naive?

NaturalBornWoman · 04/07/2018 07:47

Quite Posie. She's already told us that the whole thing will be based on a lie. I believe her.

HotRocker · 04/07/2018 07:50

We have some bloody legitimate questions about Brexit, and austerity, but if that’s anything to go by I’m not holding out much hope.
Traditionally this would have been the queue for an angry rant about the fucking Tories, but seeing as though Labour, the Lib Dems, the greens, WEP have all got their heads up their own arses on this one, I shall just have to say clueless self-serving politicians instead, which is most of them, alas.

QuentinSummers · 04/07/2018 08:03

The intro to the consultation says "This consultation does not consider the question of whether trans people exist, whether they have the right to legally change their gender, or whether it is right for a person of any age to identify with another gender, or with no gender. "

The existence line is very popular with TRAs so that got my back up a bit

OvaHere · 04/07/2018 08:16

It's clear that any consultation is just going to be lip service. Yes they are claiming that EA exemptions will remain but reading some of the wording on the documents I don't believe they will truly be upheld.

A hostile world has been created for women that want to question why a male is in their changing room/sauna etc...or who want an event or support group to truly be women only.

In this hostile climate businesses and organisations are not going to uphold EA exemptions and we will hear the words 'not proportional means' over and over.

I think the only way we will gain some ground back is via litigation which will be difficult because the women hit hardest by all this will be some of the poorest and most vulnerable women.

It is truly a dystopian shitshow of massive proportions.

Original poster

Wanderabout · 04/07/2018 08:43

I have no confidence in Penny Mordaunt representing women's rights and concerns at the moment.

My point is that the fact women have them and they are legitimate is now being acknowledged and discussed in parliament, even by Penny Mordaunt.

It seems ridiculous to be lobbying the Minister for Women to make a nod to women's rights, but these are the times we live in.

OP posts:

AngryAttackKittens · 04/07/2018 08:46

The only way to have a calm, grown up conversation is to exclude those who are not calm grown ups, unfortunately, and I don't see that going down too well in some quarters.

AngryAttackKittens · 04/07/2018 08:48

And yeah, it's a bit pathetic that the Minister for Women cannot be assumed to be planning to consult with women, and in fact is likely to be told off for doing so.

jellyfrizz · 04/07/2018 08:50

"This consultation does not consider the question of whether trans people exist, whether they have the right to legally change their gender, or whether it is right for a person of any age to identify with another gender, or with no gender. "

I've got no problem with any of that. So long as it is clear that gender is not sex.

jellyfrizz · 04/07/2018 08:50

Which it's not.

UpstartCrow · 04/07/2018 08:51

Assume it's a done deal and start to plan 2 steps ahead. Just in case its a done deal.
Any LGBT people that actually trust the Tories on this one had better remember who brought in Clause 28.

Popchyk · 04/07/2018 09:31

By saying questions from women's groups are legitimate, does she mean questions from the groups of men who identify as women? Or people with vaginas?

That is the issue.

The TRAs will be putting forward questions from their own self-defined women's groups (cos transwomen are women right?).

And PM cannot possibly exclude men from women's groups (cos TWAW).

I'm guessing that questions from the 2 types of women's groups (the male women and the female women) will be given equal weight. And since these silly "women" can't agree on anything then the questions will be dismissed outright.

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