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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

WPUK Brighton Meeting: Turning the Tide

999 replies

PlonitbatPlonit · 29/06/2018 20:43

Tickets now available to hear Kathleen Stock, Helen Saxby, Gill Smith and Ruth Serwotka in Brighton on 16 July

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-turning-the-tide-tickets-47592125328

Helen Saxby's blog notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/

Article by Gill Smith www.transgendertrend.com/lesbian-detransitioner-must-question-primary-solution/

Kathleen Stock's blog medium.com/@kathleenstock

Article by Ruth Serwotka morningstaronline.co.uk/article/why-do-we-need-new-womens-movement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
VulvaofSteel · 17/07/2018 07:50

Also, I watched him get a sizable tip at the end of the night which he didn't seem to have any issues taking and smiling about while chatting with the angry mean bitch radfem

LastTrainEast · 17/07/2018 07:52

they had a rainbow haired trans / non binary security person inside monitoring the queue which I thought was a stroke of genius. Never seen so many uncomfortable women.

Why would anyone mind that? I'd call it a plus. Like the trans people on the inside of the meeting. So far the only person to admit to being sickened to be near people with a different opinion is you.

AngryAttackKittens · 17/07/2018 07:52

And then a glittery rainbow carpet rolled out at DaimSue's feet and a phalanx of admiring protesters escorted her to her waiting Pegasus, and she took off to a round of applause?

I mean, at least try to make it sound realistic...

KataraJean · 17/07/2018 07:58

It is just a way of silencing older, white women. You don’t have to agree with them daim but disagree on content, not demographics.

I am under fifty, by the way, and I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that women generally do not agree how much they are defined by their biology until they reach child-bearing years, long term relationships and endemic structural sexism in the workplace. Age = experience of these things.

shitsgettingreal · 17/07/2018 07:58

Why would that make women uncomfortable? Grin

Bless you daim but maybe you wandering around glaring daggers made people feel uncomfortable.

(Also if it's true it's unprofessional. What if we were the evil sinister bad guys and now made complaints about the biased, rude security team? Idiot.)

howlsmovingcastle84 · 17/07/2018 07:59

Ah crap-I have pink hair! Does that mean I get kicked out of the GC club??

AngryAttackKittens · 17/07/2018 08:00

My hair was various shades of Best of Manic Panic when I was younger. Let's hope people prone to confusing hair color with opinion don't run across any old photos...

SophoclesTheFox · 17/07/2018 08:03

What is your point about the demographic, daim?

Do you think the notion that older women are irrelevant and unrepresentative is somehow progressive?

It's not. And we see your ageism.

And for the story about the guard - yeah, that happened.

Anyway, it's good that you went. At least you've managed that. It's something. Shame that your approach was like a sulky child being made to eat broccoli, but I'd have been disappointed with anything less. I am sure you will be dining out for some time on your tales of derring-do with the awful terfs.

SophoclesTheFox · 17/07/2018 08:04

Whoops! I used a banned word. Re-posted without it.

What is your point about the demographic, daim?

Do you think the notion that older women are irrelevant and unrepresentative is somehow progressive?

It's not. And we see your ageism.

And for the story about the guard - yeah, that happened.

Anyway, it's good that you went. At least you've managed that. It's something. Shame that your approach was like a sulky child being made to eat broccoli, but I'd have been disappointed with anything less. I am sure you will be dining out for some time on your tales of derring-do with the awful meany poopy headed bigots.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 17/07/2018 08:06

Im perpetually disappointed by some posters on FWR

I honestly and,apparently stupidly, believe that some posters absolutely have their heart In the right place and, although i only agree partially with them, agrue for the 'right' reasons

I again stupidly thought it would be interesting to get another perspective on these meetings

Unfortunately the pudding here has been well and truly overegged

Anyway no further comments from me regarding that poster.

MaterialReality · 17/07/2018 08:07

I forgot to do a shout out to the venue too - they had a rainbow haired trans / non binary security person inside monitoring the queue which I thought was a stroke of genius. Never seen so many uncomfortable women.

Did you ask this person if they were trans, or just guess based on the hair? Hmm

I don't know why you think this would make women uncomfortable. You seem a bit too pleased about the idea of women you disagree with being made to feel uncomfortable, to be honest, but it's probably as true as the rest of that security guard story.

AngryAttackKittens · 17/07/2018 08:08

When I see someone with really nice hair I usually ask them where they had it done. Am I meant to be shouting at them?

SlightAggrandising · 17/07/2018 08:10

Daim you should submit that to "didn't happen of the year" because... it didn't happen.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 17/07/2018 08:10

angry

My 54 year old SIL has blue and purple hair

I dont think she is very 'woke'

She is lovely though Grin

daimbars · 17/07/2018 08:13

but maybe you wandering around glaring daggers made people feel uncomfortable.

Nope I was chatting to people here and there. I asked a woman in the queue why she was there and she had an interesting viewpoint:

'I feel uncomfortable at the thought of a trans woman doing my smear test' she said, 'If the GRA amendment proposals go ahead it could mean a male bodied person doing my smear'

'But haven't trans women been legally women and potentially doing smear tests since 2004?' I asked.

'Yes, but they had to go through a two year process before being legal women which meant surgery etc'

'During this two year process, do they not need to identify as women and therefore potentially do smear tests before any hormones or surgery?'

'Oh yes, I suppose so. But self ID will make it easier for men to identify as women.'

'Ah I see, well I'm here to learn more about it. Hope you enjoy the meeting'

'You too'

Hardly hostile. Wonder if the woman is on here and recognises the convo? We discovered we share the same first name.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 17/07/2018 08:16

they had a rainbow haired trans / non binary security person inside monitoring the queue which I thought was a stroke of genius. Never seen so many uncomfortable women.

Guffawed at this.

Assuming they are non-binary because they have rainbow hair.

Assuming the audience are all binary because - presumably they all came in their Barbie outfits?

Assuming that the probably non-binary audience [unless they were in their Barbie outfits] were in any way uncomfortable with someone with dyed hair when most women have in their past - dyed their hair...

Genuis.

Most people are non-binary. That is the fucking point.

SlightAggrandising · 17/07/2018 08:16

Kinda hard to believe anything you say tbh.

daimbars · 17/07/2018 08:17

Hey Rufustheyawningreindeer - I see you as having your heart in the right place too.

There was absolutely no attempt to even try and be understanding or empathetic towards trans people last night - the entire night was a big 'fuck you' to the entire trans community. That's why I left so disappointed.

Hullabalooo · 17/07/2018 08:18

I was there last night. I'm really glad I was. Despite a four hour demonstration outside the venue (back and front) with Trans activists shouting the whole time and a police presence. Entering the building to that made me feel exactly how I used to feel when returning home to my abusive ex.

The venue (impressive finding one to take us at such short notice) was pretty full. I found the evening a mostly really interesting and thought provoking one. The speakers were knowledgeable, clear and concise and at points some of the discussion was bang on and really moving.

The bullying that Kathleen Stock has received for example has been truly appalling. I bumped into a colleague at the event (ex academic) who supported Kathleen on a Women in Academia forum online and has had loads of abuse herself from within the female academic community.

Hearing the debate from another side via Gill Smith de-transitioning from becoming a trans man about the issues lesbians face and their lack of support almost pushing them to define as trans is also in part a funding trend too. I felt really sorry for her to have been placed inb this position but she spoke strongly and was angry about the lack of support she'd had from the LGBT community and that all the help she's received has been from the Women's movement and the females in her family.

So the forum itself was good. The issues really were the following -

as mentioned by the poster above, the loud shouting woman who interrupted absolutely everyone during the two hours with irrelevant and inflammatory comments. I had the misfortune to sit two seats down from her so it was hard to hear at points. She went outside at one point and had a row with the protestors.

She came with writer Julie Burchill who herself stayed shtum. I told the woman to belt up in the end after her comment about self identifying as black which as also mentioned above made the one black woman in the room get up to leave. Julie Burchill and co also left then too but sat in the bar afterwards.

The Q and A section was where it all got messy. All the questions were taken from people on the floor and then answered after. The first two questions from women who were critical I.e you're not being clear about where trans 'women' are women or not. When in fact it had been pretty clear about this.

A women from the Quakers (FMH) spoke and apologised for venue cancellation. She said they would have a further discussion about this. Too little too late I'd say. She identified as a lesbian and also former member of Stonewall. Stonewall came in for some flak for their trans agenda in recent years.

There was a fair amount of shouting and disagreement. One man got up to speak (only a couple of men present), more of a statement than a question and an academic on the floor who discussed her experience of raising trans issues in the sector and the academic response.

A rep from WPUK came up to say that the activists were still demonstrating and if people didn't feel comfortable leaving by the front or back doors then there was an alternative exit. Also that the hotel staff had had a difficult night, people had cancelled their dinners and room bookings so could we support them by using the bar to try to recoup some lost income..I wonder whether they'd accept another booking. They seemed stressed about the event.

I'm really glad I went. It felt like a mostly safe space to discuss GRA issues and the erosion of women's rights and supportive on the whole when I for one have felt hitherto underpowered to speak my feelings about what's been happening.

Well done Women's Place for making this happen!

Bingpot · 17/07/2018 08:18

The thing you're failing to mention here though @daimbars is that while transwomen have been able to perform smear tests etc we will now lose the right to OBJECT to them doing it on a individual basis. I'm sure there are many women who are totally comfortable with a transwoman performing a smear on them. But some women aren't, and with the new changes, women will lose the right to CHOOSE. That's what this is about.

TimeLady · 17/07/2018 08:19

Interesting that you don't seem in the least bit worried about being doxxed by the awful meany poopy headed bigots, St Daim.

daimbars · 17/07/2018 08:21

Bingpot a trans woman now is legally a women. Therefore we are unable to object right now if a trans woman performs our smear and have been unable to object since 2004. The GRA amendments will make no difference.

(Of course in reality we are able to request any practitioner we choose).

AngryAttackKittens · 17/07/2018 08:22

But would love to know the Mumsnet nym of the woman they supposedly spoke to.

VulvaofSteel · 17/07/2018 08:24

My hair was various shades of Best of Manic Panic when I was younger.

I stunk of the stuff till I was about 19.

If you hadn't walked out you'd have heard the protesters. I find it funny you think we all made them up but we are meant to believe your rather interesting story about the security.

They were given way more than their 2 minutes (everyone got two minutes) and kept stopping to hug each other. Then ran outside because they were "too traumatised by the racism". Their words, not mine.

I will say, I think it was bad form the woman front left wasn't asked to be quiet as she was very distracting.

Ereshkigal · 17/07/2018 08:27

The GRA amendments will make no difference.

Except that they will, because they water down the protected characteristic of sex if lots more male people can become the same protected sex characteristic of female as women and have a birth certificate saying they are. It's currently less than 3k.