Five journalist shot dead

[RedToothBrush]

Dell Cameron @ dellcam
NEW: The Capital Gazette shooter, Jarrod Ramos, was the subject of a Capital article in which he's described threatening and harassing a woman on Facebook.

According to the article, he had pleaded guilty in 2011 to a misdemeanor harassment charge.

Kim Bellware @ bellwak
Gutted about the shooting at the Capital Gazette, but am reminded in 2018, not everyone will be universally horrified that journalists are hurt or killed

Note: Milo Yiannopoulos just 2 days ago: “I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight”

I don't know if this story will get much coverage in the UK.

It's HUGE.

It's about violence about women and their status in society, and the culture war for liberty and democracy in America right now.

Blink and you might miss this story. Or not understand it's significance.

When journalists start getting killed, it's BAD. Seriously bad.

This does not bode well for all our futures.

My god that’s horrific. Those poor people! And as you say it doesn’t bode well at all

'When journalists start getting killed, it's BAD. Seriously bad. '

Completely agree. Totally horrifying. I'm dreading Trump's response

All the main "serious" UK news sources have covered the actual shooting in detail as headline news. As for mentioning motive, it's variable.

The Guardian covers it more or less exactly as you do.

The BBC mentions an unsuccessful defamation case as possible motive.

The Telegraph mentions that paper having covered a harrassment case against the defender (no mention of his victim being female) and subsequent unsuccessful counter claim by the shooter for defamation.

The Times says no motive releasd as yet (possibly earlier time of writing than the other sources).

But yes, the misogynist motivations do need to be mentioned (well done to the Guardian for once - more of that please).

It was headline story on the BBC website last night, and is still on the front page, so it's not a hidden or minor story.
Forgive me, why is this story so huge?

So this is the next step in the evolution of the MRM? If the media won't present the spin you want on your behavior, then murder members of the media.

Journalists are canaries in the coal mine, when they're not safe nobody else is either.

Gutted about the shooting at the Capital Gazette, but am reminded in 2018, not everyone will be universally horrified that journalists are hurt or killed

I think that is nonsense. I think the US does value freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

This attack was apparently by one deranged individual with a grudge against the newspaper. It is appalling and terribly sad but why you are turning this into some sort of scare mongering story about violence about women and their status in society, and the culture war for liberty and democracy in America right now is bizarre.

The attacker had a grudge against the newspaper because it reported some time ago that he had been guilty of online harassment. Why are you trying to turn this story into some sort of organised attack on women's rights?

I'm dreading Trump's response

Eh? Why?

Why are you trying to turn this story into some sort of organised attack on women's rights?

Because the motive of the perp is significant in such a case?

Because the US is the home of both the incel and the gun?

I'm dreading Trump's response

Because he's quite likely to say that the purveyors of fake news had it coming?! Because why would the Pussy Grabber in Chief be consider the harassment of a woman to be newsworthy?

Why is it important?

Because a lot of the culture war involving Trump is about women knowing their place, journalists not reporting stories because they are 'fake news' (intimidation and threats), because of Trump being anti democratic and chipping away at the institutions that protect that (the courts and the media).

The move to authoritarian dictatorships is paved with the blood of journalists.

Its part of a gradual shift in wider politics. It's not scaremongering in the slightest. If you don't understand this, please do some swatty up on how democracy works.

This isn't merely about a lone gun man. It's about how 'lone gunmen' are being systematically and deliberately wound up for a purpose.

I know you enjoy being contrarian, Lass, but this really isn't the thread for it.

I know you enjoy being contrarian, Lass, but this really isn't the thread for it

How dare you. This incident is absolutely appalling and I have said so. The reaction from all official sources has been shock and horror. I actually think co-opting this tragedy in the way this thread has done is pretty appalling.

The Mail has a very large piece on this

Ramos was the subject of a 2011 article - titled 'Jarrod wants to be your friend' - after he pleaded guilty to criminal harassment. The article described him as having threatened and harassed a former high school classmate on Facebook. He sent the woman numerous emails spanning several months calling her vulgar names and telling her to kill herself.

In the years that followed, Ramos sued the newspaper, the reporter who initially wrote about the case, a judge and the woman who testified against him. His defamation suit was thrown out on appeal in 2015 because Ramos failed to prove that what the newspaper had printed was untrue.

He's another fucking Incel, isn't he?

An Incel with a hispanic name too. God knows what the Orange Psycho will have to say about that.

Not biting. Red is right in the context she's attempting to place this in, and it's important. I will not be discussing this with you any further.

The move to authoritarian dictatorships is paved with the blood of journalists.

When journalists are killed for whatever reason, everyone should sit up and take notice for exactly this reason.

He's another fucking Incel, isn't he?

Yes, indeedy, he is.

I agree with Red and AAK. This happened in the context of an incel movement in the US that idolises Elliot Rodger and also in the context of a presidential administration that regularly tells the population that the press has it coming.

This is a toxic mix and dangerous for many people but in particular women.

Looking at his history, it's certainly looking likely that he's the incel type.

Can anyone access the original article to see if he has targeted the writer, or just the paper in general

I actually think co-opting this tragedy in the way this thread has done is pretty appalling.

It is called 'making connections between other things happening in the world'.

I thought this was basic; look behind the headline, don't take the words for granted, read between the lines - FOLLOW THE MONEY.

I could maybe understand Lass' point if he was "just" a violent male (though again, there is the feminist analysis of why it's usually a male to be had there), but when it's someone who has specifically held a grudge against the paper for reporting his dodgy behaviour around women, it is surely much less of a leap...?

There is a battle going on as usual to blame various usual suspects, i.e. Trump, Milo Yiannopoulos, white people, Hispniac people, and so on.

Ramos is, for what it is worth mixed race being mixed non-white Hispanic & white.

heavy.com/news/2018/06/jarrod-ramos-family-parents/

People have seized upon this Tweet as a tenuous link to supporting Trump.

twitter.com/EricHartleyFrnd/status/644292223547404288

The facts are here about what happened:

www.mdcourts.gov/sites/default/files/import/appellate/unreportedopinions/2015/2281s13.pdf

The shooter in around 2010 contacted some forgotten schoolmate on FB. She was friendly to him (online - they never met offline), he started sending threatening emails & other electronic communications, including trying to get her fired, she got a restraining order, he got a suspended jail sentence, and that at least was the end of THAT.

HOWEVER, this slightly random case of threatening internet communications was written up in the local newspaper, courtesy of writer Eric Thomas Hartley.

Ramos got pissed off & took the paper to court, where the case was thrown out on the basis that every word was true, and he'd failed to show otherwise.

He then pursued a seven year vendetta against the newspaper & its journalists culminating in this mass-murder (though Hartley had long since moved to another state & newspaper, so the victims are essentially random).

Anyway, one can construct whatever narrative suits.

The story shouts incel. Incel terror really frightens me. I don't stand at the edge of tube platforms any more. I know it sounds ridiculous but the threats to women coming from all sides are matched by a callousness from mass opinion 'well you wanted equality you should have been careful what you wished for' and it's awful. It ranges all the way down to men not standing for heavily pregnant women. 'Women aren't special'. Sorry to trivialise but it's a whole range of behaviours.

He wasn't ONLY obsessed with the journalist for reporting his assholery, but also the judge who threw out his case against them, his last tweet being to his fake @judgemoylanfrnd saying 'fuck you' (apropos nothing in particular afaict, as he has now retried).

I actually think co-opting this tragedy in the way this thread has done is pretty appalling.

Well you need to learn a bit more about politics then and pay a bit more attention.

This isn't being co-opted at all. Sadly this is not in the least bit surprising. It's the nature of the dynamic between the freedom of the press and fascism/totalitarianism. And unless you are going to tell me that Trump is a passionate supporter of the institutions of the system of the press and courts keeping a check on the power of the President, you can really jog on. The culture war between Trumps America and liberals is only just starting. We haven't seen anything yet. It's going to get a lot worse yet. America has got a time of reckoning to deal with.

Social media just gives the opportunity for leaders to distance themselves from the violence they intentionally are trying to create.

I fully expect more attacks on journalists in America in the next two years. I would be utterly delighted if I'm wrong.

The newspaper printed the truth about his harrassment of a woman.

And so he had to attack them for telling the truth. Because that is an awful crime in his eyes.

The truth is under attack all around right now.

I'm not seeing much sympathy for the 5 murdered journalists- certainly not in the opening post. The OP takes the trouble to screen shot something from the harrasment victim but says nothing about the journalists- not even the newsworthy fact that one of them is the brother of Carl Hiasen.

The story and their names and faces is all over the internet but the OP can't be bothered linking to that or naming them.

The OP is not showing respect for the dead? Don't you think that's a bit of shit come-back?

He seems to have been influenced by this manga.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserk_(manga)

Specifically he placed this 'brand' on the judge & journalists pictures.