Gender Critical 'Lurkers'

[BadasIwannaB]

I’ve been reading the Gender Critical threads on Mumsnet for a few months now and I’m ‘delurking’ to say THANK YOU! To all the intelligent, articulate gender critical feminists here - you are my absolute heroes, and you’re really giving me hope!

I’ve thought for a long time that many aspects of the supposedly right-on rhetoric about gender is deeply misogynist, and I was unsettled and annoyed at how much pressure there is on women not to challenge it, and how much supposed ‘feminists’ enforce that pressure. But for a long time I felt like I must be the only person who thought this, because I wasn’t seeing anyone speaking out, and on the v few occasions where I mentioned any of this to friends, it didn’t go down well. So it’s been hugely inspiring and reassuring to see that there’s this growing community here standing up for women against the bullshit. I’ve literally been reading the discussions here every day for the last few months, and it cheers me up so much! I’ve become such a fan of so many of you: LangCleg, Datun, Bowlofbabelfish, Ereshkigal, Angry Attack Kittens, I could go on and on…

So I started wondering, how many people like me are there reading these threads and cheering silently from the sidelines? I’m hoping there are lots of us. I think it’s easy to think we’re a tiny minority because of all the fear surrounding joining the discussion, but maybe if we all delurked we’d see that that’s not the case.

So any other lurkers wanna delurk?

Yep GC lurker. Gobsmacked by the madness. Have contributed to the crowd funders and thanks to sites like this I know what is going on. Intend to get more involved.

Count me in. I am keeping mainly quiet on MN but have started bringing the issues up in real life, with my DP ('Well, if this affects DD, you need to do something about it'), my 2 SILs ('Madness!'), a neighbour ('Madness!') and at work ('We use 'assigned at birth' due to guidance we have received').

Please don’t post in anger. Keep your cool. Your voices are valuable assets, please don’t lose them. I know it’s hard; there is so much riding on this

Important current thread,
Pratchet (OP) comments:

It's shit but I think we have to be pragmatic. And disclaimer: the below does not refer to all trans people or all transadvocates.

Imagine how many pairs of TRA eyes are trawling every single post on Mumsnet about trans issues. There are the resources, the legal support and the tech experience there to build a civil case, or find the one post that tips over into breaching IPSO and Ofcom guidelines, that can lead to sanction, compensation or worse for MN... (continues)

And who will they complain to? They will be complaining to people who have had 'trans awareness training' and bodies which have extremely active awareness networks, looking for offensive material. Going back years, through the media, including the BBC and ITV at the highest levels, police, monitoring organisations, government, the civil service, about how vulnerable trans people are, about how oppressed trans people are. What are Mumsnet's chances of coming out the other side and being able to allow this conversation to go on?

We all know this, but it's actually real. It's not theoretical.

Don't do the TRAs' job for them. Please don't jump. Please don't throw yourselves in front of the train. This is David and Goliath, we are amateurs all, new to the field, up against an army of well-prepared professionals. But we can do this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3290772-Reality-check

I really think it's time now for more of us to speak up. If you're not confident about posting, I recommend the daily register threads. You just have to say 'here' or 'yes.' That's all I do some days.

Love this thread! Lurkers are great. I often lurk but increasingly posting too, even when all I'm doing is posting to agree with more articulate posters . Important to see right now that there are lots of lurkers when this place has become a much less friendly space for many of the regulars, some of whom do seem to have been under attack (since they've been deleted and had strikes for saying the same thing that others have not had any action for).

I'm another lurker - I post occasionally elsewhere (and have been on MN for a good 11 years!) but I think this is my first on FWR. I have learnt so much from all of you and am trying to have these conversations in real life. I had a great conversation the other day with a friend who had been peak transed by someone who sounds like she may well be on here! Word is spreading.

I've been lurking here for years, and follow a lot of MNers on Twitter as well. My eyes have been well and truly opened. Thank you all!

I'm also a lurker and mostly just read

Democracy only works if we pay attention
Yes!!

Another lurker here

Another lurker here. You all have given me the framework to put my incoherent thoughts into a clearer and more logical order - thank you.

We have a good friend and neighbour who is a trans woman. She transitioned late in life after many years of mental health struggles and it was amazing to see her off antidepressants for the first time in her life as a result of beginning treatment at Charing Cross. She had therapy 3-4 times a week for years, hormones, surgery, laser hair removal, vocal therapy. It was so much work and physical recovery that she had to quit her job. She just wanted to keep her head down and live a quiet life. I asked her once whether she considered herself male or female and she just said I'm a transwoman, I accept my past and my future are different from both men and women.

I feel very different about what's going on now and the imposition onto female spaces. Also the reinforcement of traditional gender presentation, someone like Caitlin Jenner making claims like "now I'm a woman I can wear dresses and paint my nails" as if being a woman is the performance of stereotypical femme traits and no more. I feel suspicious that we hear so much from trans women who were born as men - to me it feels like male privilege writ large. And I worry for my sons, that they will feel that their ability to be male is so stereotypical that if they want to wear a dress or nail polish they will be told only a girl can do that and so they must be trans.

What a heartening thread from so many wonderful women and a man or two

Keep it up - we need you

Lurker here and agree completely op

I asked her once whether she considered herself male or female and she just said I'm a transwoman, I accept my past and my future are different from both men and women.

I know someone like this (although transitioned earlier in life but a very long time ago) and they say that they ran away from being a man but have never considered themselves a woman.

The great success of extremist transactivism is that it has successfully convinced the public that these are the people they are talking about. But these are not the people they are talking about at all.

I've been here for years but have lurked on the FWR boards for the last 18 months. I feel the importance of women's rights so much more strongly after having a daughter.
Thank you you brave articulate women. I have learned so much

You've kind of nailed it there Xiaoxiong.

Your friend had a condition which was alleviated by becoming a very feminine version of a female. Whether that was as a result of a lifetime of restrictive male roles which upset them, or a mental health condition, who knows.

But it is a solution which, although practical for them, on an ideological basis is nonetheless reinforcing gender stereotypes, which is damaging to women. And it's transactivists who are pushing this. Not men with gender dysphoria.

Because when this condition is elevated and celebrated to become an identity, or a lifestyle choice, or aspiration, or whatever you want to call it, that's when the trouble starts.

It is not a positive move to relentlessly attach high performing feminity or a hypersexual presentation to the word woman.

It's a regressive move and incredibly restrictive.

When people only see that identifying as a woman helps your friend's symptoms, they totally miss the real life repercussions which are being pushed by TRAs.

Repercussions which are already having an effect. Take the girl guides, for instance. They are now excepting gender, instead of sex as a basis for their organisation.

Which means boys presenting as girls are accepted (femininity). But girls identifying as boys (girls trying to escape restrictive stereotypes) are managed out.

Result? An organisation which is meant to help girls, is defining them as feminine only.

I'm so heartened by the number of women here who are totally getting it and spreading the word.

This is reassuring isn't it? Swift delurk to say how in awe I am of the passion and articulation on these boards.

I am a lurker on these threads, and have learned so much. Following notification here, I sought out and I listened to the interview on radio 4 (PM?) a few weeks ago and was super impressed by the mumsnetter articulating the issues (vs some heavily sighing counterpart, don't remember names). It was so measured in the face of nonsense that would have enraged me.

All power to the articulate, educative and impressive posters!

I am a constant lurker. I read all the threads but very very rarely comment. Thank you all for the debates, the well resourced arguments and for putting yourselves out there in what is fast becoming an even scarier place to be a woman. Even though I don’t comment on here, what I learn has helped me to articulately challenge woman’s issues in real life. So thank you all again.

Another lurker. Very grateful for the fantastic work you’re all doing.

Xxx

This thread is so encouraging. Fills me with energy. Welcome lurkers!

I lurk a lot and occasionally post.

Thanks to the inspiring women on the forum, I am a lot more active and vocal off MN.

I've signed petitions, contacted my MP, run a GC Twitter account and I'm having many productive conversations with people in real life. Most people are incredibly shocked when they realise the extent to which safeguarding and women's rights are being eroded.

I will try to post more on MN, even if I'm just lending another voice in agreement.

De-lurking. 👋🏼 Very grateful to the legion of MNers who are courteous and compassionate to and about those suffering from gender dysphoria, as well as trenchant in defence of the need for sensible discussion and the protecting of women-only spaces.
I have learnt such a lot, especially about the ramifications of self identification and am very grateful to Mumsnet for holding the line and allowing these conversations to take place. It's important that dissent on the issue isn't conflated with transphobia.

Wow so many lurkers. What a heartening thread!

I want to encourage everyone to dare to comment on threads in general as well. Even if you don't feel like your are as articulate as poster x or y, your thoughts are important to!

I am also a lurker 👋