RuPaul's Drag Race

[PinkMojito]

I am new to feminism, and while watching RuPaul's drag race, it struck me...I had always thought of it as just a bit of fun, but is this actually glorifying a grotesque characterisation of women? The overly done and exaggerated padding to make a cartoon-like female figure (not all, some use their natural bodies, but by and large), and the makeup (removal and redrawing on of eyebrows far above the natural line, to exaggerate a large and very unnatural eye size), huge lips, among others.

In writing this I found the article posted here:

www.feministcurrent.com/2014/04/25/why-has-drag-escaped-critique-from-feminists-and-the-lgbtq-community/

Because they’re not actually pretending to actually be women. They know full well they are men, dressing in drag. As with lots of artists who perform in shows like that, it’s supposed to be over the top and camp and bizarre. If they came out on stage and actually just acted like a regular woman it would be boring as hell.

It’s worse than that. All the “fish” references etc. Eurgh.

Because they’re not actually pretending to actually be women. They know full well they are men, dressing in drag.

That’s my (drag-mad, otherwise very GC) DD19’s argument, and she’s right, I suppose (although I’m sure it’s not true of all of them individually). I just don’t know why they have to lace the whole thing with so much misogyny.

As you can tell, it’s an ongoing debate in this house.

Be a bit more convinced if there were as many drag women doing OTT male impersonations.

Yeah good point, the fish references, and also "charisma uniqueness nerve and talent" being the top accolade.

And use of the term "hunty", combination of honey and c*nt.

@BiologyIsReal Exactly, I feel like the equivalent would have to include gigantic comical schlongs flapping about!

I didn't mind drag untill a drag queen won a year of the woman version of celeb big brother I was raging that this man in frock won. It made a mockery of women this over the top over sexualised over made up version of a woman

I do still like ru paul  though which is a  contradiction  Dd loves the campness  of  drag race  she knows full well  it is catty gay men fighting for attention

Are you familiar with Desmond is Amazing? I can’t quite formulate my response. He’s certainly a self-assured old-beyond-his-years child and is ‘big’ on the drag scene. A BIG fan of Ru Paul. Controversial but if you’re exploring the subject of drag possibly worth
looking into. He’s wanted to be a drag artist since he was three. He probably can’t even spell misogyny! Held up as a LGBT icon. There’s a you tube video of him where the father is interviewed (add Fatherly) into your google search. Father not a man of many words. Fascinating.

It's meant to be over the top, sometimes its supposed to be a caricature sometimes its just for the illusion, the shock factor, but its just a job and its a job thats been around for a very long time, wasn't it Shakespear who coined the word 'drag'? As in DRessed As a Girl.....and that used to be perfectly acceptable!

The point is its harmless its all an act put on for entertainment, themes include but are not limited to comedy, art, magic, song & dance etc.
Drag is absolutley not something else to get offended about! They don't want our wombs or our changing rooms, they know they are men!

Drag queens get to make a living by doing something that makes them happy and mostly thats by entertaining and educating people, they have a great sense of community and some even help fundraise for good causes.
I wish I could do half as much, If I stood out (visually) had a great presence and some kind of talent I'm sure I could do the same.

There are also drag kings who do the same but I think maybe they're not on the same scale of popularity yet.

get a grip!

its a job thats been around for a very long time, wasn't it Shakespear who coined the word 'drag'? As in DRessed As a Girl.....and that used to be perfectly acceptable!

That's because women were not allowed to act in the plays, by law...

RuPaul’s type of drag (proper drag) is political art designed to deliberately poke fun at homophobia and gender.

Unfortunately drag is also being appropriated and sanitised by genderism.

ILikeMyTeaHot - interesting, do you have a source for the Shakespeare connection, please? (Like PP, I'm aware that women weren't allowed to act on stage for some time.)

Last year, the British Library had an exhibition about Vaudeville Theatre in Britain, and they mentioned that Pantomime Dames were popularised by Dan Leno. If I remember, correctly, the exhibition text said that the etymological roots of 'drag' are unclear but first recorded around 1870. And it is was then accepted in use to mean a man dressed as a female character.

PS: it was a fascinating exhibition. I'd never heard of some of the women mesmerists. One of the exhibits was about Annie de Montfort who also styled herself as an electro-biologist: Annie de Montford: her mind governed the world

Shakespeare didn't coin the word drag. The first recorded usage according to the OED is 1870.

I don't really see it as very different - if at all different - from stuff like the black-and-white minstrels.

Cross-posted with arranfan.

Here's a bit of the relevant OED entry:

g. Feminine attire worn by a man; also, a party or dance attended by men wearing feminine attire; hence gen., clothes, clothing. slang.

1870 Reynolds's Newsp. 29 May 5/5 We shall come in drag.
1870 London Figaro 23 June 3/4 Not quite so low..as going about in ‘drag’.
1887 Referee 24 July 3/1 I don't like to see low coms. in drag parts.

Though the interviewee gets a bit confused here re gender stuff IMO, there are parts of this that are good; www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5188791/rupauls-drag-race-history

Marsha P Johnson is constantly being appropriated for genderism, I imagine RuPaul finds that unpleasant TBH.

Wikipedia has been able to fight off editing to portray Marsha as trans thus far.

What is the difference between drag and blackface/black and white minstrels?

Both are amusing, apparently.

the whole point of drag and RPDR is that its a parody and they are imitating for entertainment. It has a long history on the gay scene (as do I...) and I've never found it offensive. They are a world apart from from the trans-activism we see now and I imagine the trans-activists are as happy about that as we are. RDPR is a window into an amazing sub-culture which has come into the mainstream poking fun at masculinity as well as being incredibly creative, funny and highly skilllful in many ways. The one that one big brother? yeah that was just fucking annoying in the "year of the woman" but that doesn't stop me from loving Courtenay Act. I've known many drag queens and seen many drag shows whilst working on the gay scene and rarely felt any misogyny or lesbophobia from them, quite the opposite. Some of the language can be a bit off (the fish thing is horrible) but you can't just level that at drag - my gay brothers are much much worse for this.

The black and white minstrel show was a parody.

It had a long history, and was imitation for entertainment.

i dont agree - reductive argument.

It's a genuine question, I'm not being sarcy, so if you could expand on that I'd be interested.

I don't understand the difference; I get other people do and I'd love to know why, exactly, pretending to be black for amusement is offensive, but pretending to be the opposite sex, for amusement, is not offensive.

I don't understand the difference; I get other people do and I'd love to know why, exactly, pretending to be black for amusement is offensive, but pretending to be the opposite sex, for amusement, is not offensive.

Me too.

I dont have any academic / political expertise on the subject i simply have a POV on drag as someone with long lived experience of the gay scene as a lesbian. For me its positive subversion of masculinity by having the option to dress and behave in an "outrageous" way. It's as much a take down of the heteronormative as it is a parody of women.