RuPaul's Drag Race

[PinkMojito]

I am new to feminism, and while watching RuPaul's drag race, it struck me...I had always thought of it as just a bit of fun, but is this actually glorifying a grotesque characterisation of women? The overly done and exaggerated padding to make a cartoon-like female figure (not all, some use their natural bodies, but by and large), and the makeup (removal and redrawing on of eyebrows far above the natural line, to exaggerate a large and very unnatural eye size), huge lips, among others.

In writing this I found the article posted here:

www.feministcurrent.com/2014/04/25/why-has-drag-escaped-critique-from-feminists-and-the-lgbtq-community/

Watch Paris is Burning if you haven’t already, Battleax. Great insight into the roots of drag. It was originally a class, race, gender revolt.

Has some of that been lost in Drag Race? Of course, it’s a commercial product.

Drag Race is definitely rife with misogynistic language but to only focus on that is a vast over simplification IMO.

No, I know. I’m not claiming women have been the opressors of gay men. I’m saying it was mocking gender not impersonating women.

I just cannot see it Off. I have tried.

It’s a shame really. I adored Danny Le Rur when I was younger but I can’t unconvlude what I’ve concluded about drag as whole.

I’ll give it a go sloth.

can i still post or is being told to "sod off" like a final warning? should I sashay away? NO! Shante I stay!

and yes Battleax - watch Paris is Burning - and stop throwing shade at me. Who made you head girl? ;

Mainstreaming of gay men’s drag means it is obviously vulnerable to crossing into misogyny and genderism both re how it is received and how it is performed.

I don’t think that means gay men’s drag is inherently mysogynistic or a part of genderism.

I think RuPaul himself, and others of his generation would be dismayed by that.

Don’t forget there is a gender based hierarchy in homosexuality, this has been particularly enforced re gay men because for much of history women weren’t even considered people. Which is not to say female homosexuals were not subject to it, simply that gay men have been variously transed or camped up by societal expectations re gender very intensively. In many ways this is worsening again...

I'm not telling anyone to sod off , but I genuinely don't understand " It's as much a take down of the heteronormative as it is a parody of women." - because if white people were dressing up in "traditional" black or Asian or whatever clothing and hailing it as "as much a celebration of "racionormative" (or being white) as a parody of black people" I think there would be some objection.

So I'm really looking for reasons why one is ok, whereas the other is most definitely not.

Ohh this is interesting. I watched one episode of RPDR on Netflix and I have to say I was put off: it was an episode where they had to decorate little barbie dolls and the winner had chosen to dress her up as a hooker with a black eye and a broken high heel. And the constant talk of fish etc.

I’ve got to say I did find it misogynistic and even googled afterwards “RPDR misogyny” but was surprised to see that much. Maybe it was the wrong episode to watch for the first time and I’m being a bit pearl clutchy?

I can understand battlax!

I think it is deserving of the criticism but I think the reason I still have affection for it is because of my understanding of drag being rooted in the political activism and the gay community before this genderism stuff went so nuts so when I think of drag and what it means to me I think of the gay liberation political activism which was GC political satire as part of a civil rights movement for gay liberation (a genre I love anyway).

When I watch drag race I see it through those eyes in the same way you can’t unsee the things you have seen.

I do think the criticism is valid, I think they are fair criticisms, particularly re drag race. I certainly agree that it may be completely fair to legitimately say that what drag race actually is is misogynistic, internalised homophobia, promoting genderism etc but I’ll probably always see the roots of this type of drag in the gay liberation movement.

I don’t think it is pearl clutchy to not like it. I don’t think it is necessarily even unfair to read drag race as misogynistic.

I'm also not sure that saying "well gay men are oppressed so it's ok for them to mock another oppressed group (women) as a challenge to heterosexual society as a whole". Because for example Muslim people as an oppressed minority couldn't get up on stage with blackened faces and overly exaggerated lips (a la minstrel show) and say "well we are oppressed so we are mocking the society that oppresses us".

It makes no sense to me. It used to, back in the day when I really didn't see how women are routinely the bottom of the pile when it comes to "people who can be made fun of, ignored, dismissed and belittled".

As I've matured I've lost the ability to see the funny side to a lot of things. The rise of the current "I'm a woman because I'm wearing a dress and if you don't like it just suck it up" groups means that I'm even less likely to find men who wear dresses for a joke in any way funny.

I like to watch it in part for those very reasons... to observe what is happening as gay men’s drag as it mainstreams and to refer it back to the gay liberation drag.

And I'm aware I'm becoming a humourless old hag, but fuck it, why shouldn't I? I'm getting old, and although I don't agree with everything Germaine Greer says I'm turning into her.

I think I’m distinguishing gay men’s drag from RuPaul’s drag race in many ways TBH, which was perhaps because when I watch it that’s the experience for me. It’s not necessarily something everyone will want to do or should do.

With all things it is appropriate, I think, to say ‘Ok but look what it has become’

I think I was just trying to point out that it is a case of ‘what it has become/is becoming’ rather than ‘look what it is’... well, that’s certainly how I feel about it anyway!!!

I think drag, when it started, was probably a "fuck you" to society which at the time was criminalising "feminine" (ie gay) men.

I think things have changed, and I question whether there is a place for drag of any sort any more. Added to which I think the RUPaul stuff is more anti-women than pro-gay men.

I get what you are saying Offred.

I definitely think, given the genderism stuff and the threat of transing of gay men becoming even more present there is definitely a place for drag.

Drag race is not doing it though and RuPaul was put in his place by genderists when he personally made some GC noises...

It’s hard though... drag has always been commercial, it was a way to financially survive, there are anxieties related to that. It was also about being heard, there are anxieties relating to that. It was also about belonging and community and there are anxieties relating to that.

It would not have been easy for RuPaul to keep drag race rooted IMO.

The thing is though, gay liberation does not need to be directly concerned with women’s liberation. When to stop is therefore more about the status of gay men and it does not necessarily matter if women get thrown under the bus.

Drag was GC because of oppressive gender re gay men not because gender is oppressive to women.

Then you get into a discussion re whether it might be more sustainable and effective to dismantle gender itself... but it’s essentially a similar thing to liberal vs radical feminism; taking what you can get for your group within the system or the more difficult fight to dismantle the system and rebuild it.

It would be wonderful, since I do believe that sexism and homophobia are different sides of the same coin, if there was an alliance but I think it is clear that the general trend is actually going more down the route of retreating into competing special interest groups...

I think I was just trying to point out that it is a case of ‘what it has become/is becoming’ rather than ‘look what it is’...

Yeah it’s a legitimate distinction.

RPDR has cornered the market.

Women can therefore totally reject drag for this, they can argue that it is not the best strategy for gay liberation and that allyship re common interests would be better, but they can’t make demands that gay liberation centre women’s concerns.

All we can really do is watch where it is going and decide whether gay liberation is worth investment re our own interests.

Signs are not indicating it is worth investment TBH but I absolutely believe there is a fringe of what I call ‘proper’ drag but that drag race is fast becoming what everyday feminism is to feminism.