RuPaul's Drag Race

[PinkMojito]

I am new to feminism, and while watching RuPaul's drag race, it struck me...I had always thought of it as just a bit of fun, but is this actually glorifying a grotesque characterisation of women? The overly done and exaggerated padding to make a cartoon-like female figure (not all, some use their natural bodies, but by and large), and the makeup (removal and redrawing on of eyebrows far above the natural line, to exaggerate a large and very unnatural eye size), huge lips, among others.

In writing this I found the article posted here:

www.feministcurrent.com/2014/04/25/why-has-drag-escaped-critique-from-feminists-and-the-lgbtq-community/

Gay men’s drag is not pretending to be a woman. It came from the gay liberation movement. It is satirising gender and homophobia. It’s politically motivated performance art.

What it is becoming, in part because of drag race actually, is not what it’s history is.

Yass! (see what i did there) Offred - satirising gender and homophobia is exactly the point. and you're right, RDPR is changing things but surely thats just the commercialisation of a sub-culture and the gloss of television?

I’m not sure genderists would be so keen on being included in drag race TBH if they were aware that part of what the drag of RuPaul’s generation mocks is the oppressive gender regime which is applied to gay men.

The drag of that generation was fundamentally gender critical IMO.

It is being appropriated by genderism now in the same way all people who are opposed to gender stereotyping are being recategorised as part of the ‘trans umbrella’ for being ‘non-binary’.

It is being made to buy into genderism when initially it was protesting gender.

Gay men’s drag is not pretending to be a woman. It came from the gay liberation movement. It is satirising gender and homophobia. It’s politically motivated performance art.

So why do they call women “fish”? (Revolting term).

I enjoy drag race BTW, the mainstreaming of a fringe protest movement always loses some of the fundamental parts.

I think if you have a sense of the history it is interesting to watch drag race though. The stuff re peppermint, the ribbing about ‘pageant queens’ and ‘fishy queens’ (going too far into female impersonation) but then the constant coldness to Kameron Michaels re the masculine presentation of his ‘boy body’ and RuPaul’s comment on the most recent ep re black gay and femme and community...

Also who can forget ‘fat femme and asian’?! Loved that...

It all amounts though to a bit of an (understandable) existential crisis for gay men’s drag due to the mainstreaming of it IMO.

Fishy- suspicious, also satire re misogynistic language IMO

No it doesn’t mean suspicious. Google it.

I’m aware of what the drag race wikia says.

The subversiveness IMO is the use for queens who cross into female impersonation... the misogynistic language when applied to women is applied for not conforming effectively...

I think it’s absolutely fair to level criticism that these things do not translate re the mainstreaming and simply appear to be and actively promote simple misogyny.

The peppermint thing had real potential to f things up for Ru Paul but he saved himself IMO. And I agree with the critique of pageant queens - when they do the comedy challenges they fall flat...not the makings of a drag superstar.

Battleax - its not just drag queens that call women fish, not excusing it but its a gay male-wide phenomenon.

There is massive misogyny in the gay community IMO, I don’t necessarily think this is the case in political drag though.

And I think the mainstreaming means within gay men’s drag itself those using the language are also often actually meaning to say ‘ewww icky women’

The subversiveness IMO is the use for queens who cross into female impersonation... the misogynistic language when applied to women is applied for not conforming effectively...

Can you imagine this same conversation but about racist language used by white performers in blackface, but how it’s only used satirically and to the less accomplished minstrels?!

I’m frantically trying to guess what your vested interest is here. It seems to me you’re tying yourself in knots to argue the unarguable. Maybe I’m just shocked to be in disagreement with you, IDK.

Battleax - its not just drag queens that call women fish, not excusing it but its a gay male-wide phenomenon.

Again, I don’t see that that’s more than an observation. It’s not an argument.

Try it on the black and white minstrel comparator again;

“It’s not just minstrels who call black people “n**r”. Not excusing it but it’s a white community-wide phenomenon.”

AND?!

Maybe not legitimising and televising slurs would be a good start? Or, you know, just a very good thing?

I don’t have any vested interest TBH.

I don’t think gay men’s drag (history of a political protest against the oppression of gender and homophobia by an oppressed group) can be seen as equivalent to black face by white performers (a tool of oppression done to further oppression by the oppressors).

Straight man drag is more comparable to black face IMO.

The issue for me is you have a historically repressed group being used to further the ends of another group. How is that ever ok?

I think my point is that the valid objections are more about the loss of the history and the translation into the mainstream which means this type of drag is losing it’s meaning both to the audience and increasingly with the performers...

But I don’t think writing off gay men’s drag as inherently misogynistic is fair... That’s my opinion.

Women haven’t been the oppressors of gay men.

I thought this recent story highlighted some interesting points:

www.phillymag.com/g-philly/2018/06/07/aunt-mary-pat-transphobic-win-win-coffee/

(I followed some links and noticed that the drag performer went on to donate to the transpersons crowd funder for laser hair removal)

It was never about female liberation, it was specifically gay liberation, but it was GC because gender is oppressive to gay men as well.

I don't understand the difference; I get other people do and I'd love to know why, exactly, pretending to be black for amusement is offensive, but pretending to be the opposite sex, for amusement, is not offensive.

I have to agree, I genuinely don’t get the difference. I have seen one drag act that was about poking fun at politics etc, and didn’t come across as offensive (it was some years back now!). Any others I’ve seen, and to be honest, there haven’t been many, have seemed to be about making fun of women.

No, I know. I’m not claiming women have been the opressors of gay men. I’m saying it was mocking gender not impersonating women.

"frantically trying to guess" and "shocked to be in disagreement" - we get it, you're using "over-emotive language 101" to right your replies.

Using the word "fish" - I dont have any argument with you, i dont like it either.

No-one is tying themselves is knots or has a vested interest (unless offred was wig consultant on season 9) - we say its different because of its roots in gay liberation and you say it isn't.

frantically trying to guess" and "shocked to be in disagreement" - we get it, you're using "over-emotive language 101" to right your replies.

Oh do get a flipping group. I was just being tongue-in-cheek. It’s just wryly amusing when you suddenly find yourself diametrically opposes to someone you usually agree with fervently.

Sod off and police someone else’s tone.

But gender has been the oppressor of gay men, and drag makes a mockery of it.

Grip not group (in case you leap on that too).