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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I cannot believe that Mumsnet - a parenting site!! - agrees with the following:

114 replies

badgirlswatchagonnado · 27/06/2018 10:47

  1. Giving children drugs off-label that have ZERO long-term safety studies
  1. Advocating surgery below the age of consent
  1. Teaching children LIES (changing sex is physically impossible, and thus a lie)
  1. The enforcement of redactive, prescriptive gender stereotypes
  1. Encouraging children to ignore parents to get advice from strangers on the internet (and even to leave their parents and live with above internet strangers)

I made a comment last week that was short, but encompassed all the above behaviours and labelled it as abusive.

Because surely it is abusive to treat a child in such a way.

But Mumsnet deleted it, and stated it went against their guidelines, which is the same as agreeing with the above.

Mumsnet isn't interested in child protection.

Mumsnet is happy to see children being injured by dangerous drugs.

Mumsnet is happy to have other posters advocate surgery, drugs, and lies while people like me - who are against these things - get our comments deleted and sanitised.

Just thought people would like to know.

OP posts:
Wanderabout · 27/06/2018 11:04

Must have been a mistake or overzealous mod. Unless you were referring to a named individual or said something different to the above, I don't see how that breaches the guidelines.

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 27/06/2018 11:06

I don't think MN supports any of those positions, and I don't think it's fair to infer that they do because your post was erased. But they do seem to be tying themselves in knots suppressing what they have been told is "hate-speech" i.e. calling a spade a spade

stillathing · 27/06/2018 11:09

yes it is devastating.

in the words of owen jones we may well be "on the wrong side of history". history that traditionally serves to document from the perspective the half of the population that is and has always been in power.

our language is policed, twisted, appropriated and stripped of meaning but we can't un-know what we know. i hope a woman more organised than me is documenting all this for herstory. i hope one day women will be able to look back this and learn from what happened with mumsnet. were they scared of something or was the whole site just a cold and hollow exercise in marketing?

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 27/06/2018 11:13

Women are being silenced for standing up for children against this utter madness and as a result our children are being silenced as well and not able to be protected and defended....on a PARENTING site!

Original poster
badgirlswatchagonnado · 27/06/2018 11:15

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted I think it's absolutely fair to make that inference, because what else do I have to go on? They know about all this information, because it's discussed here all the time!

OP posts:
SuperDandy · 27/06/2018 11:16

MNHQ don't allow posts that conflate parenting a trans child with child abuse. It sounds like that's what your post was aiming for, hence the deletion.

I don't imagine that restating your thoughts in more detail whilst slinging mud at MNHQ is going to help you get a hearing if you would like your post reinstated.

Pratchet · 27/06/2018 11:17

I don't agree that it means MN agrees with these things and I disagree (strongly!) that mumsnet doesn't believe in child protection and wants to see children injured by dangerous drugs Hmm But I will join you #spartacus

These are abusive:
Giving children drugs off-label that have no long-term safety studies
Advocating surgery below the age of consent
Teaching children that changing sex is possible
Enforcing prescriptive gender stereotypes
Encouraging children to ignore parents to get advice from strangers on the internet (and even to leave their parents and live with above internet strangers)

Original poster
badgirlswatchagonnado · 27/06/2018 11:17

I didn't do that, SuperDandy.

And all MNHQ said was that my comment went against their guidelines.

Would be great to know exactly HOW but they aren't telling.

OP posts:
Pratchet · 27/06/2018 11:19

On the sports day thread, comments directed at the mother were deleted and they had to be. General comments like the above, weren't. I think these behaviours are abusive but I think much more often they are NOT parental behaviours.

Pratchet · 27/06/2018 11:21

Some of it e.g. Is online grooming

GenderApostate · 27/06/2018 11:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lifesavingorange · 27/06/2018 11:41

I was deleted for saying something along the lines of cutting bits off a child is abusive. Can’t repeat what I said as I’ve had two strikes and if I’m deleted again I’ll be banned.

Isn’t free speech great!?

Pratchet · 27/06/2018 11:43

In general, it's not parents pushing this. It's transactivists at every level.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 27/06/2018 11:56

Yes, I bet you a lot of parents who've gone along with it all have done so through fear because they've been threatened that if they don't their child will attempt suicide.

This is emotional abuse.

Pratchet · 27/06/2018 11:59

Oh yes I think the parents are groomed and abused as well. They think they're doing their best.

Snappity · 27/06/2018 12:06

Yes, I bet you a lot of parents who've gone along with it all have done so through fear because they've been threatened that if they don't their child will attempt suicide.

That is hugely disrespectful to parents who genuinely are attempting to do their best for their children.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 27/06/2018 12:12

They think they're doing their best

Thats a very good point about the parents pratchet

I think that's exactly what's happening

OlennasWimple · 27/06/2018 12:13

That is hugely disrespectful to parents who genuinely are attempting to do their best for their children.

How can they know what is best for their child, when so much of the narrative is dominated by "if you don't let them trans you will end up with a dead child"? I would reckon that the vast majority of parents want to do the best for their child, but knowing what that is can be very hard

Frankenterfer · 27/06/2018 12:16

Just on the topic of such surgeries, how isn't it genital mutilation? Genuine question, not being goady, it's so alarming to me that anyone would advocate for this.

LangCleg · 27/06/2018 12:26

I genuinely don't see any credible case for medical intervention in minors - and I have read all the transactivist-produced cases for it. And I particularly don't see any justification for the use of puberty blockers - and again, I have read all the arguments put forward for why it is desirable. I'm happy to put my view forward and I am not seeking to censor the view of the other side (not least because I would prefer to rebut it than see it not discussed).

It's an emotive issue.

I am concerned that a website for mothers will allow the emotive case for to be put but the case against can only be outlined without any emotion and with vocabulary highly censored.

@MNHQ - think again, please.

Maryzsnewaccount · 27/06/2018 12:41

A direct question for Snappity.

Do you think the examples in the op are abuse? Or do you think it's ok to allow/encourage children to take untested drugs and/or go for unnecessary (from a physical point of view) surgery, to tell them lies and to encourage them to keep secrets from their parents and take advice from strangers on the internet?

Alexa488 · 27/06/2018 12:56

I agree with you Pratchet but I also can see what OP is getting at: if MN erase a comment they are in a way saying it's unspeakable. It's a kind of bystander syndrome, you don't commit the crime but you are complicit in allowing it to happen because MN is allowing publication of the view which promotes this child abuse.

I think most parents are indeed doing their best and it's not just the suicide fear at play: our whole society has been infiltrated by trans ideology and most people tend to go with the flow. We have pillars of the community such as the Police, MPs, Girl Guides, Local councils, universities and schools promoting trans children's rights, often at the expense of women and girls. It's only natural for parents to believe they are doing the right thing.

State-sanctioned child abuse is what it is, just like the Benefit Cap and 2-child limit of the DWP.

Pratchet · 27/06/2018 14:11

I actually think the OP is highly defamatory to Mumsnet.

Pratchet · 27/06/2018 14:12

Also it may have been a rogue decision considering we are all still reading.

Bloodmagic · 27/06/2018 15:51

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted

"I don't think MN supports any of those positions, and I don't think it's fair to infer that they do because your post was erased."

If there's one thing that pisses me off more than anything else in the world it's when the people who make the rules say "those are the rules, we just have to follow them."

MNHQ made the rules. MNHQ enforce the rules. They are not being dragged along helplessly by this, THEY are the ones actively choosing to do it and doing it over, and over, and over.

If just hypothetically speaking a comment saying that it's wrong to mutilate a child's genitals is deleted for violating community guidelines, then the community guidelines are that mutilating a child's genitals is OK. And who made those community guidelines? Was it 'the community' (i.e. us)? Or was it certain specific people with their own beliefs that they ought to be held accountable to?

We each have a responsibility to act with integrity and within our own values. If MN is deleted comments for the above statements, well, that is their values.