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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Schoolgirls successfully challenge imposition of all gender neutral toilets

62 replies

enoughisenoughtoday · 26/06/2018 18:07

Today's Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/genderneutral-toilets-my-daughter-was-called-selfish-for-wanting-girlsonly-loos-at-school-cwth60b2c?shareToken=9fab5475d7d35b0766e60529518947cc

This is what happens when people have to listen to girls (and women. And the comments are good.

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 28/06/2018 16:52

I think you are significantly underestimating the number of disabled children in schools.

Snappity · 28/06/2018 17:08

I do not like the idea of gender neutral toilets and would not use them unless they are floor to ceiling walls/doors.

Like is the operative word I think. Having travelled extensively, I am much more relaxed.

Lancelottie · 28/06/2018 17:10

I think those figures also underestimate the numbers of gender-questioning children in some schools.

My daughter's school year has at least two (that she knows of); at least back in Year 9 when they were friendly with DD, they had not been referred to the Tavistock but were already changing separately.

Lancelottie · 28/06/2018 17:15

Maybe, Snappity, but lots of people aren't. And most school loos are vile enough without the added stress of making them mixed sex.

ResistanceIsNecessary · 28/06/2018 19:11

This is why I think y'all are over reacting a little on the transgender kids 'taking over' disabled toilets.

The point is that there is only a small number of children who are identifying as dysphoric and receiving medical treatment, yet anecdotal evidence so far is that schools are receiving regular requests that trans-identified children be able to access a sex segregated space that doesn't align to their natal sex. The two do not reconcile - which suggests that "feelings" (I feel like a boy/girl therefore I need to use their spaces) are being prioritised over "evidence" (I identify as a boy/girl and am receiving medical treatment to transition).

There is a greater likelihood of a school having a disabled child within its student body, than a trans child. - bear in mind my comments about not including children with ASD in the calculation, which would significantly inflate the percentage as it's common that many of them would need access to a disabled loo as well.

Therefore it would be inappropriate to prioritise a trans child over a disabled one; if schools are sufficiently concerned to want to make provision for trans children then they should be building third spaces for them.

It would appear therefore that there is a massive fear of upsetting a vocal and current movement, alongside a fear of being seen to discriminate against a minority group. Turning disabled loos into trans spaces is unfair unless the trans child is also disabled - as they don't need wheelchair space, grab rails, accessible basins etc. It feels very much like a quick and cheap win for schools but as a previous poster pointed out earlier in the thread, yet again it places disabled children at the bottom of the list.

ChattyLion · 28/06/2018 19:28

Fantastic, inspiring work! A dedicated third space is an ideal solution. Congratulations to those tenacious girls.

I write that as an adult woman whose workplace permits male-bodied people who identify as women to use our (completely unadapted) women’s toilets. Our privacy and dignity as female colleagues while using the women’s toilets is not even on the radar.

proudestmumm · 28/06/2018 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

enoughisenough12 · 28/06/2018 19:47

Well this is useful!!!
The government have just issued guidance on 'Gender Separation in Mixed Schools'.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf

Some very useful and clear information. I would draw your attention to para 13 and the use of the word must.

It is permissible for toilet and boarding accommodation facilities to be separate as they are captured under existing statutory exceptions. Separate toilet and washing facilities must* be provided for boys and girls aged 8 years and over pursuant to Regulation 4 of the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012, which falls within
the exemption provided for in Schedule 22 of the Equality Act 2010. With regards to boarding accommodation, Schedule 23 of the Equality Act 2010 allows for separation by sex providing the same standard of accommodation is provided for both boys and girls*

LemonJello · 28/06/2018 20:00

Wow that’s very useful for some work I’m doing enough, thanks so much for posting.

enoughisenough12 · 28/06/2018 20:02

I saw it for the first time today Lemon
Have started a separate thread about this.

LemonJello · 28/06/2018 20:03

Great, will have a look Smile

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 28/06/2018 20:17

Very good to hear that, well done that girl and her mum.

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