Transgender people can be turned away from female only spaces government says

[mammyoftwo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5880533/amp/Women-allowed-bar-transgender-people-female-changing-rooms-toilets-ministers.html?ico=amp_mostReadNews

Apologies for the source, it's from the daily fail. However, if true it's definitely a victory worth celebrating!!

some people are trying to set up is a view that trans women are biologically different

No one has to try Snappity. Literally no-one.

Am I going to be deleted for saying that transwomen are biologically different from women?

Are we all biology-deniers now?

Anyone reading that post will come to their own conclusions about it - and those conclusions are highly unlikely to be sympathetic

Meanwhile back in the real world, DV and rape crisis centres can turn away volunteers if they want to have a space for biological females to heal from male violence.

If a women's rugby club wants to turn down a 17 stone, 6'4" forward on safety grounds, they can

These sorts of propotionate sex-based exclusions to the GRA are legal.

And at the same time, thanks to the GRA, trans people with bodily dysphoria are protected against discrimination in the workplace and in housing etc in the 99.9% of cases where sex doesn't matter.

Win-win. Hooray for the great British political compromise.

Snappity

Transwomen have neovaginas, and neovaginaplasty. To equate vaginas with neovaginas is patently absurd! There would be no need for neovaginaplasty if transwomen were born with vaginas!

trans women are biologically different from women you mean? Well yes, obviously.

Anywho... nice to see there are a few media outlets covering this now. It's nearer reaching tipping point every single day :)

They can but it's legal not to, isn't it? So we need sex specific spaces to be something we can sue for.

I go for option 3 "trying to get people to snap"

By "people you might want to say "women who have had major gynaecological procdues inclduding for cancer"

But, best to leave it really, I think interesting for lurkers.

So, on the scotland thing. Clearly the equality website needs to be contacted, best someone in scotland does it who feels brave enough?

Guys, please, please stop upsetting and stressing yourselves by responding to thread derails. You're providing exactly what's wanted.

This thread is about government acknowledging women's right to single sex spaces and services where they are needed.

Am I alone in thinking this is a piece of PR to lull people into a false sense of security ahead of the consultation?

If a women's rugby club wants to turn down a 17 stone, 6'4" forward on safety grounds, they can These sorts of propotionate sex-based exclusions to the GRA are legal.

That's a weight/height exclusion not a sex exclusion. The two tend to be conflated but they are different.

It's certainly possible pratchet, I'm not decided either way. But coverage is good, regardless :)

Meanwhile back in the real world, DV and rape crisis centres can turn away volunteers if they want to have a space for biological females to heal from male violence.

If a women's rugby club wants to turn down a 17 stone, 6'4" forward on safety grounds, they can

These sorts of propotionate sex-based exclusions to the GRA are legal.

Yep. And not only are they currently legal but government is signalling that they will remain legal. The task for us is to ensure they are applied wherever appropriate. We need to spend time pressuring public bodies to apply these legal exemptions wherever it is best for women and girls. We must learn to use our time productively and not waste it on derailments.

Fermat I agree with you. But this is when things go well.
What about when things don’t go so well? When women are feeling uncomfortable because an Obvioulsy Male person is entering their all female space?

I would actually really support a form of ID that would specify the gender if the person. And that Id would be obtained after getting the GRC.
Because atm, anyone can self Id. Some Id as a man one day and a woman the next. So somehow those people can go in women space one day and notbthe next?? And we are supposed to believe that women are safe when it’s the day when identify as a woman?
Or women in a prison are supposed to be safe from a self Id woman who has been sentenced to prison for RAPE?

Of course, we can just get on with the proposal, let trans woman come in women space and wait for the obvious increase in rape etc... or for women now to stop doing xxx because they feel unsafe.
The danger of course will be that we still won’t know because ... ah yes they will be recorded as ‘women’ and not men or trans women of course. So ‘no realisation’ that women aren’t safe anymore. They are just been raked by other women. Such a shame but how can we stop that!?!

No statement from TwoCocks condemning the bomb making equipment and threats on women.

The debate seems like it is going to heat up over the summer.

Beyond and others

Anywho... nice to see there are a few media outlets covering this now. It's nearer reaching tipping point every single day

The huffpost article made me smile, all about Mr Twocock and Jane Fae saying the trouble with women's groups is they just won't listen, so blatant, so coercive.

Lang: pressuring - can we force them by law?

I can't envisage any circumstances in which it would be lawful to exclude from a female space a trans woman with a female birth certificate and who has had vaginoplasty.

Rape trauma group therapy, unless the trans woman passes very very well, to protect the theraputic environment for other victims in therapy.

Pratchet yes I'm not confident either.

The situaitons with hosteling, swim england, hampstead ponds etc etc plus things like sports (non professional) have already moved to self iD and there's nothing in the law I think to stop that?

I think schools are supposed to give single sex changing so there might be something there.

If course any private company (shops etc) can do what they like.

Also things like stats - this doesn't help. How many women convicted of rape in england and wales last year? And a massive increase in sex crimes committed by women overall - and no way to tell whether this is driven by women or transwomen. It's very important to know what is going on in order to think about ways to address it. IF women are sex offending at higher rates then this is a change and it's important to know and therefore to understand why / what's going on and see if it can be addressed. If it's transwomen then essentailly a small number of the large number of sex offenders are lost from the male figures (probably not enough to dent) and onto the women's (numbers are v small so even a few extra will make a big difference).

We don't want to start initiatives into women sex offenders if that's not what's happening as it's a waste of time and money.

This sort of stuff.

None of what they have said helps with this stuff.

kind of coincidental that a story that will lull people into a false sense of security ahead of the GRA is the first one to get so many outlets picking up on it

Putting the onus on women and girls to challenge dodgy men is a bad idea.

We all know how men can get when women / girls question or challenge or disagree / say no to them.

Sardines agree. So the Equality Act will stay? Well, it's not protecting us now. I want more. I want the Equality Act amended so that it's a duty, not a right, of organisations to retain single sex provision.

Lang: pressuring - can we force them by law?

I imagine in many cases, yes. We can force impact assessments and make the results public - and I think that might well force changes because none of them will want to say out loud "Well, we don't give a fuck about women".

We need test cases and crowdfunding.

We don't want to start initiatives into women sex offenders if that's not what's happening as it's a waste of time and money.

Exactly what impact assessments are for!

Yes. I guess.