Transgender people can be turned away from female only spaces government says

[mammyoftwo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5880533/amp/Women-allowed-bar-transgender-people-female-changing-rooms-toilets-ministers.html?ico=amp_mostReadNews

Apologies for the source, it's from the daily fail. However, if true it's definitely a victory worth celebrating!!

foxyliz there's no such thing as a male cow. A cow is an adult bovine female.

Like I said a few posts back, we need to stick to the point in hand which is that this is a useful acknowledgement from government that for the time being single sex exemptions will be retained where they are necessary and proportionate.

Absolutely Fermats. It is of course incredibly difficult not to challenge the abhorrence, but we must stay focused and continue our conversation.

Your "Lukewarm" point is also well made, Lang.

What's that saying? "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

This statement from government spells out the current status quo, and reiterates the fact that proportionate sex-based exemptions to the GRA exist. But now that government has spelled this out, we can expect lobby groups to go on the attack, so we mustn't drop our guard.

But now that government has spelled this out, we can expect lobby groups to go on the attack, so we mustn't drop our guard.

Yes, and now they can be the subject of radio phones ins and panel discussions.

It's the next level of understanding, that people will be able to start discussing. In public.

Yy datun. Snowballing :)

@BeyondFemaleElitist

Nope. Showing that other terms are sometimes used doesn't show that the term vaginoplasty is wrong.

I agree, although, in the interests of fairness, I will still, occasionally, encourage transactivists to put their point across.

As Queen of FWR my dear, you can do whatever the fuck you want, whenever the fuck you want.

Is Stonewall's director of campaigns seriously called Mr Twocock?

Oh dear. That must take some living up to.

What's that saying? "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

This statement from government spells out the current status quo, and reiterates the fact that proportionate sex-based exemptions to the GRA exist. But now that government has spelled this out, we can expect lobby groups to go on the attack, so we mustn't drop our guard.

Precisely. And the outcomes of particular types of surgery have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Snappity, are you seriously going to argue this? That you will use an inaccurate term that upsets me - as a woman who has been through it - when I've given you an accurate alternative?

Crack on, shows everyone the kind of person you are.

Vaginoplasty can only occur if there is a vagina there in the first place. A neovagina is not a vagina.

"However none of the councils involved, nor the children’s commissioner, nor Education Scotland have carried out an equality impact assessment to ensure the rights and wellbeing of other pupils are unaffected. This means the impact other students has not been taken into account

The question that needs to be asked to all these bodies is why not?

Why was an impact assessment not done? Was this oversight, or deliberate?

Snappity: this doesn't feel like a civil approach from you. It looks like gloating.

Women don't generally need to dialate their vagina apart from in cases where they have had cancer etc. All transwomen who have gone through full surgery have to dialate the wound that they have had created however in order to keep it open, to appear like a vagina. This wound however is not a vagina and a vagina is not a wound. Really quite different. One being biologically female. The other, not.

Backlash begins, apologies if already posted
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/transgender-people-will-not-have-right-to-use-women-only-spaces-government-confirms_uk_5b30adf0e4b00295f15e751e

This is plain out and out bullying of women who have had to undergo surgery. Along with minimising what they have gone through, and (apparently) enjoying dismissing their hurt

I'm not reporting though.

Why let obvious shit-stirrers derail a thread? The topic of this is not Do Women Need to Dilate Their Vaginas - it is about female-only spaces.

I see this time and time again. Don't engage: ignore. You are not going to change the shit-stirrer's beliefs. You're just giving them the satisfaction of engagement.

Snappity: this doesn't feel like a civil approach from you. It looks like gloating.

I have been here long enough to realise that that what happens is that attempts are made to deny certain words being used in relation to trans women - woman is the most common but on this thread the same is being done with vaginoplasty. Then that sets up an atmosphere in which trans women are seen as other - they aren't women, they don't have vaginoplasty.

Well a little secret. Trans women are women and they have vaginas and their surgeries are vaginoplasty. If you don't want people to need to mention that, stop denying it.

Why let obvious shit-stirrers derail a thread? The topic of this is not Do Women Need to Dilate Their Vaginas - it is about female-only spaces.

Quite. And what some people are trying to set up is a view that trans women are biologically different so it makes sense to exclude them by using one set of terms for trans women's biology and a different set of terms for other womens' biology. I am not stupid.

The question that needs to be asked to all these bodies is why not?

Why was an impact assessment not done? Was this oversight, or deliberate?

It is the question that needs to be asked. And, of course, no adequate answer will be forthcoming because the truth is that equality duties have become a box-ticking exercise that they don't really care about, they passed it to inadequate parties to carry out, and virtue-signalled the results. At no point has any public body actually considered - or cared about - deeply embedded societal misogyny.

Nope, nope, nope. All the nopes.

Oh here we fucking go again.

I don't know what is more worrying; that Snappity is enjoying upsetting people or that Snappity actually believes what Snappity says.

Or of course there is option 3 - that Snappity is trying very hard to get people to snap.

"trans women are biologically different".

Well, let's face it, they are. Having different biology and all.

Ffs this is ridiculous. You won't make me rise and tell you anything factual that you object to though, I know exactly what you are doing.

I hope you are reading this @JustineMumsnet

Can you define the word 'vagina', Snappity? Think we established several threads ago that you couldn't explain what a 'woman' is.