Transgender people can be turned away from female only spaces government says

[mammyoftwo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5880533/amp/Women-allowed-bar-transgender-people-female-changing-rooms-toilets-ministers.html?ico=amp_mostReadNews

Apologies for the source, it's from the daily fail. However, if true it's definitely a victory worth celebrating!!

I know the answer to that one Errol! Although I'm not 100% certain it applies in Snappity's case given the illogic demonstrated so far.

evidence of veracity is necessary

Indeedy

Except we do know which is which.

Some people are pretending not to know, but really no one is that stupid.

It's actually more, is this a falsifiable claim. If there is no objective metric then the words 'I am a man' or 'I am a woman' are devoid of any meaning which could be used in legislation.

I can smell males, I don't even need to see them

I thought I was rare but I smell men in a second just walking near them.

Good to know there are others who have this as well.

Yes, I would imagine that the people watching are not particular impressed at a poster on a Feminism board wilfully erasing and belittling women's experiences, and then doubling down on that position when called on it.

I know what's being done here. It's called a logical fallacy. Taking the outliers, the women who DO have to dilate, as being representative of women as a whole.

Bottom line is that generally, vaginas don't need to be dilated EVER. Just because a few women, relatively speaking, have to dilate doesn't mean that MEN have vaginas or that they can get one from a surgeon.

Vaginas are specific organs that have a whole structure and function that can NOT be created in a biological male. Men can think that's what they're getting all day, they can bleat all day about it but they DO NOT have a vagina. They have a surgically constructed wound that ALWAYS wants to heal.

Vaginas don't do this.

Also, getting back on topic,

The GRA was a mistake. It needs repealing.

What do you all think will happen when women's shelters or restaurants decide to keep their sex based spaces? All hell is gonna break loose.

Some autogynephilic male, just like Clymer, is going to have a narcissistic tantrum and the women's shelter is going to have to go to court, pay out of the teeth to defend themselves.

The next steps are all going to have to be carefully planned so that the shelter that DOES say 'no' to a man, gets all the support they need to win the case.

You can't let the narcissists win. You have to put your foot down.

Anywho... nice to see there are a few media outlets covering this now. It's nearer reaching tipping point every single day

I'd just like to point out that nothing has really changed. Media outlets are only picking up on this now for something that has been there since 2010 and it is done on a case by case basis, not a blanket "ban" as so many here seem to be wishing for.

So many here seem to be interpreting their own version of innacurate media coverage.

One thing that has changed is that the councils have changed their fraudulent lists of protected characteristics for accurate ones. Certainly made a difference for some women and girls. It will soon make more of a difference.

So true mancheeze. They weren't happy with the Gender reassignmemt regulations 1999, weren't happy with the Gender Recognition Act, aren't happy with the cultural acceptance of Self Identification and aren't happy with the Equality Act 2010 exemptions. This has been planned for decades. They will never let the Equality Act lie. Never. It is under attack already and it is not protecting us now. The idea that it will protect us if self ID is legislated is laughable. The promise that it will be retained is transadvocate PR being dripped into the mainstream at every opportunity.

What's more, we can't compete with the direct access to ministers had by transadvocates who parrot and promote this promise. All we can do is keep campaigning and looking for test cases.

Some autogynephilic male, just like Clymer, is going to have a narcissistic tantrum and the women's shelter is going to have to go to court, pay out of the teeth to defend themselves.

Already happened

www.feministcurrent.com/2012/05/14/rape-relief-v-nixon-transphobia-and-the-value-of-women-only-space-an-interview-with-lee-lakeman/

I'd just like to point out that nothing has really changed.

Thing is, perception is changing, more people are thinking critically about what is means to be male/female and why we have single-sex spaces.

I think the biggest change in perception is that people are realizing that the law doesn’t just cover a small number of body dysmorphic people who have had bottom surgery but can also include anyone who feels like the opposite sex in their head/soul but makes no changes to their physical body.

I can smell men too. Some men smell good to me, some smell absolutely awful in a way that women never do (which I assume is part pheremones indicating incompatibility, ie don't make babies with this person and part men on average being less good about personal hygiene than women), but none of them smell like women.

It is possible to smell men. There’s a male hormone used in olfactory experiments to test how good your sense of smell is and to see how it triggers the olfactory patch.

They dilute it down in mineral oil then shove an electrode on your olfactory patch (this is extremely unpleasant but it’s the kind of thing PhD students do for an easy twenty quid as a volunteer..) and see what dilution you can detect it at.

It’s entirely possible to smell males. Some people can even smell specific illnesses. Our sense of smell varies massively between individuals- some people are almost smell blind whereas other can detect things with great sensitivity.

I'd just like to point out that nothing has really changed. Media outlets are only picking up on this now for something that has been there since 2010 and it is done on a case by case basis, not a blanket "ban" as so many here seem to be wishing for.

We're not saying the facts on the ground have changed. We're saying the media framing of the facts on the ground has changed and that this is a good thing because media framing is a precursor for changing public opinion and/or awareness.

AngryAttackKittens
I can smell men too. Some men smell good to me, some smell absolutely awful in a way that women never do (which I assume is part pheremones indicating incompatibility, ie don't make babies with this person and part men on average being less good about personal hygiene than women), but none of them smell like women.
Yep, supersmeller here too. DH was almost chosen by smell
I can tell which oil my mum had in the bath the night before when i meet her cat (who doesnt get in the bath!) & which aftershave DH co worker has worn when DH gets home (i make the poor man change a lot!)

Almost = mostly

I can smell when a man has been in the meeting room I'm using, and when a biological male was using the women's loos at work I could tell if they'd been in there recently. The pink trainers and ponytail didn't disguise the male smell.

Delurking and posting for the first time to assure you marvellous women that the bullshit posted in this thread in an effort to derail it doesn't fool anyone. How you kept pulling it back on topic against the onslaught of nonsense was bloody brilliant.

It seems to me that the framing of yesterday's news (transwomen explicitly being told 'no', rather than less specific generalisations about single-sex protections) is what hit a raw nerve with certain narcissists, and this is why they tantrummed all over this thread.

Mordaunt may have just been reasserting the status quo, but for once the message was clearly aimed at who it's meant for. That's why it was important and that's why so much effort was put into derailling.

I have lurked for months and months, agreeing with you all the way. But that ridiculous display of petulance from the derailers made me want to tell you regulars how much you are appreciated.

I love all the lurkers coming out.

Yay.

I really think that self ID is the biggest problem.

People that actually get therapy, take hormones maybe have a surgery etc...?

It's imo much more acceptable / probably (hopefully?) less dangerous.

As far as I remember, all small children identify their school jumpers by the sniff test rather than the name label, and there's that particular tang to teen-boy-sweat that you don't seem to get from the girls, so I can quite believe that some posters here can discriminate between that sexes on pong alone.

Maria, I'd hate to encourage anyone to have drastic surgery in the hope that it will make them 'more of a woman/man'.

We're not saying the facts on the ground have changed. We're saying the media framing of the facts on the ground has changed and that this is a good thing because media framing is a precursor for changing public opinion and/or awareness.

Except no one can ban anyone from a toilet. There is literally no legal reason to stop someone legitimatley using a toilet. It all comes down to a case by case basis. false "facts" are NEVER a good thing.

EeveePhd
Perhaps if you want to talk about toilets start a thread in AIBU?

I can smell XY people too.

No great surprise, I’m a mammal - my female dog has the same ability (although mine is only useful with other humans, she seems to be able to do it with other dogs AND humans - she’s a rescue who is scared of men but not women. Pretty certain she’s not deciding who’s who based on gender-role stereotypes).