Transgender people can be turned away from female only spaces government says

[mammyoftwo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5880533/amp/Women-allowed-bar-transgender-people-female-changing-rooms-toilets-ministers.html?ico=amp_mostReadNews

Apologies for the source, it's from the daily fail. However, if true it's definitely a victory worth celebrating!!

Going back to Sardine's example upthread of all women shortlists - I always think the Warchowskis are the perfect example of why moving to "gender" rather than sex makes a mockery of the whole idea.

They made probably the most influential sci fi film of that decade (I personally have always thought it was a bit over-rated, but there's no disputing the fact that it was of enormous importance). Thing is, they pitched, got the funding, cast, directed, marketed the whole trilogy while presenting as the men they were born and brought up as. Is there a chance in hell that two women would have managed this? Not on your nelly.

So too AWS. It's very telling that one of the possible beneficiaries of the rule change is someone who's already had one bite at the cherry as a man (and is lying about age and previous experience).

I think it's very important to be able to say "why is this measure in place? Safety? Privacy? Bodily autonomy? Redressing an imbalance? If it's redressing an imbalance, what sort of imbalance - the lack of women due to sex discrimination, or the lack of trans people due to genuine transphobia?"

And transwomen still don't have them.

So? Can whether it is or is not OK for someone to use a particular space truly depend on whether they have a Bartholin Gland?

"There was a huge push in 2009 to get gender identity included in the Equality Act. It failed then and I think any new attempt today would still fail."

I hope you're right. Including gender identity and gender expression in the EA would be ridiculous until someone can give a definition of those terms based in material reality that is independent of any time period and/or geographical location.

These people have no respect for boundaries

This. I find it astonishing that women make it clear that some words or comparisons are offensive and yet some posters continue to use them. If it helps it doesn't go unnoticed

I don't think the court gave adequate consideration to the implications of allowing men to become legally women whilst keeping their male genitalia.

Indeed.

All of this is so scary for what our nieces/daughters etc will have to live with.

I can't envisage any circumstances in which it would be lawful to exclude from a female space a trans woman with a female birth certificate and who has had vaginoplasty.

Really?

Maria Miller took serious advice from ATH, they demand the release of all trans prisoners...Ian Huntley anyone?

an explanation as to why teenagers need to be able to get GRCs.

No. They do not. A male child can still impregnate a female child. Male children and female children need to be segregated for sleeping and showering. This is not about gender identity, it is about safeguarding.

I hope you're right. Including gender identity and gender expression in the EA would be ridiculous until someone can give a definition of those terms based in material reality that is independent of any time period and/or geographical location.

I hope so too. Gender identity needs many more restrictions than gender reassignment and I don't think that has been thought through.

This is not about gender identity, it is about safeguarding.

This was something I pointed out today, it isn't prejudice it's safeguarding to keep intact people who present opposite to their birth sex away from children when they are in intimate spaces.

You confuse me Snappity, but at least we agree on something lol

What should matter to you is the experience of women - here needing to dilate. And that applies equally to trans women who are women.

It's not a female experience. It's not comparable to a woman's experience of dilation due to cancer. I do believe it's one deserving of sympathy. Gender dysphoria so strong that you feel you have to surgically modify a healthy body into a simulacra of a woman's must be extremely difficult to manage. As is cervical cancer. Which is totally different, being a disease of the female reproductive system a male person won't get. And different from say, a malignant melanoma, or lung cancer.

Sardines agree. So the Equality Act will stay? Well, it's not protecting us now. I want more. I want the Equality Act amended so that it's a duty, not a right, of organisations to retain single sex provision.

This.

I want the Equality Act amended so that it's a duty, not a right, of organisations to retain single sex provision.

Yes. This is absolutely what we want and need.

From what I've read it's self ID on hospital wards isn't it, despite the commitments over the years to single sex.

As with anything else consideration needs to be given to everyone, I'd not think it right to put someone in with the men or the women in some cases, so private room is the answer

But in a cash strapped NHS how will that work +
If you know saying you are trans gets you a private room, loads of chancers will say it.

The difficulty is that conversations around middle roads / is there a way to keep everyone happy & comfy are brushed aside and deemed transphobic

As nothing less than total inclustion in everything single sex is deemed as reasonable and fuck what that means for women and girls.

Can whether it is or is not OK for someone to use a particular space truly depend on whether they have a Bartholin Gland?

Given the 100% correlation between presence of Bartholin's glands and the absence of male socialisation, caused by the socialisation of children being decided based on reproductive biology, I'd say it's reasonable to admit only the possessors of Bartholin glands into female spaces. This wouldn't be because of the Bartholin glands though, it would be because of the female socialisation and 100% guaranteed absence of a penis emitting motile gametes.

Given the 100% correlation between presence of Bartholin's glands and the absence of male socialisation

Love it

Shall I start referring to DH as a "mobile gamete penis emitter"?

I quite like that one.

I've been calling him "dicky" lately though which he's got quite used to.

He refers to me as "Majestic Becunted One" usually.

Haxxor nails it. You could also look at the correlation between the absence of a B gland and the statistical propensity to sexual and violent crime. Any number of comparisons would give the the answer, no sharing thanks.

It is good that the government agencies and media representatives are waking up to the damage done to women's rights by carelessly written laws. Using one protected characteristic to trump another protected characteristic is discriminatory application of poorly written law.

Transgenders are protected by law under their sex protected category.
There is no need for changes to legal documents. They have created an enormous legal mess by pretending that one sex can abracadabra themselves into the other. Women, transsexuals, and intersex rights, have all been sacrificed for the sake of the gender reassigned, in the name of equality.

"dicky" "Majestic Becunted One"

I'm confused:

If it is still OK to say trans women are women, as meetthenew has done up thread.

I presume it's still OK to say trans women are men, as well?

One statement offensive to women (females), and one offensive to trans women(males).

If this post gets deleted, I'll have my answer, and the stinking hypocrisy will be crystal clear.

I'm screen shoting, to add to the list of things women can't say on MN, just in case.

I've reported a poster for stating for the umpteenth time that TWAW. In the interest of balance.

To think men and women died for our freedom, and this is how some use it!