Blown away by how little a lot of people care about women’s rights

[sundaynamechange1]

I’ve name changed.

How do you challenge or discuss self ID with women who think it solely boils down to sharing a toilet and we have nothing better to do but cause trouble.

Honestly don’t know how I’m going to face them again - which is pretty soon.

I don’t know if it’s purely down to age, they like a bit of a ruckus and being devils advocate or they really are that thick. How can you have pleasantries with a woman who think men get just as a bad deal/ assaulted and that’s it’s fine to put a violent man in a female prison because you lose your rights if you commit a crime.

Honestly I’m staggered today and worried for our future

I think it's one of the biggest hurdles we face today.
And people are so blinkered. If an issue doesn't affect them, they cannot see that it might affect other people.

For example, the world 'women' has been removed from cancer screening info, and some people really can't grasp that not everyone has a high enough standard in either English or biology to understand 'cervix havers' in place of 'women'.

I don't know. I wish I did. I do try to challenge some of the rubbish I see randomly posted of FB though. I have managed to get through to one or two women I hope.

on FB, not 'of'.

Maybe you should consider that you might be wrong and that you are over-reacting?

I’ve never been so robustly challenged by a women on women’s rights though. It was hard to discuss it or ‘debate’ it when they clearly didn’t grasp the situation and to just make statements which were untrue but by that time I didn’t have the energy to point out and prove wrong all the false statements

I just couldn’t get my point across that this is about protecting the few rights we have and not denying trans rights at the same time time

snappity I don’t think I could ever be wrong about a violent man being put in to a female prison. It’s just something I’m never going to consider I’m wrong over.

I feel for you OP

I have a friend who is quite high up in her corporate organisation and had no awareness of certain concerns when I raised them. (Keep in mind I have to stick within talk guidelines so apologies for vagueness).

what I did get from a serious discussion with her is that she doesn't want men to be labelled as being dangerous etc and that she has never experienced any kind of harassment, not even a wolf whistle on the street.

she acknowledged my concerns when I explained things I've experienced from a young age. But then when MeToo happened, I was struck by how unbothered she was.

I have drawn the line (mentally) and I have one acquaintance I rarely see now - the MeToo thing just raised women blaming, statements about how women should learn to take compliments and how men are at a disadvantage. she is just someone local with whom we occasionally have drinks - like twice this year I think - but after I heard that on the last time we went out, I just pretend we're busy when she texts.

I don't want to go barging in and saying "you're wrong" to anyone. But even my dad has been able to admit that recent events have shown up a truly appalling misogyny and he's the kind who finds that hard to say. So when women want to pretend it's not there, I can only think there's some kind of denial going on - they find it too depressing to think about.

PS I raised the thing about prisons with my friend - she didn't know it was going on.

I do wonder what % of the population are aware of certain issues, given that the words "biological sex" and "gender" have been conflated.

There's nothing we can do really to change people's attitudes apart from giving facts and real life examples of how things go terribly wrong. That graph showing referral rates to gender clinics by teenagers for example no one could just shrug that off

Maybe you should consider that you might be wrong and that you are over-reacting?

It is very telling how many people who say they are women, seem to be completely unconcerned with the rights of women.

Almost like they don't actually see themselves as women at all.

Otherwise they would also be concerned.

I find that baffling.

Almost like they don't actually see themselves as women at all

This

Well actually...

that’s it’s fine to put a violent man in a female prison because you lose your rights if you commit a crime.

I have come across this arguement before, many times. How is it that only female women lose the right to be safe because of the crime she has committed?

Nor do the women being complained about by the op. They don't see them as women, which is why they listen and defer.

@TellsEveryoneRealFacts

"Almost like they don't actually see themselves as women at all."

we've got to accept some discrepancy in opinion though surely? My corporate friend describes herself as a feminist. Probably since we were teens - she's now 40.

that’s it’s fine to put a violent man in a female prison because you lose your rights if you commit a crime

So they think only women should lose their human rights then? Or if men lose their rights too, why do they get to go to a female prison in the first place? How do they explain that double standard?

The thing is, we’re so conditioned to put men first, to prioritise their feelings, and dismiss women as hysterical liars and complainers. A lot of women take this onboard, and it’s almost like they distance themselves from other women on some level, they because they believe that they are someone how different, better. I think it’s a kind of self preservation.

If she has daughters start with girl guides.

And men always seem to get it when sport is mentioned.

But to tell the truth, I've only realised now I'm older how little of a shite most people give about women's rights. I admit when I was younger I was just as guilty, and I'm ashamed of some how dismissive I was back then.

maryz I was thinking that as she is quite young. I only started to turn my head in my early thirties also

Maybe you should consider that you might be wrong and that you are over-reacting?

I think that is a valid point to at least think about.

Things I care about.

The normalisation of prostitution and pornography.
The lack of abortion rights and availability of contraception in many countries.
Enforced wearing of "modest clothing" (including its voluntary adoption in countries where it isn't enforced).
Restrictions on what women can do imposed for religious reasons.
Violence against women and the frequent failure by the courts to impose adequate sentences.
The conduct of rape trials.
Women and men who say things like "well what did she expect going out dressed like that"

If that makes me a hater of people with cervices so be it.

I find it both bewildering and terrifying. Have spoken to a few women who have 'got it' almost immediately. Others refuse to look at the wider picture and assume it's simply a case of extending rights to a tiny minority of gender dysphoric people. They just can't join the issues up.

One of the most frustrating and depressing situations I've come across was meeting with our female Labour candidate and female Chair of our local CLP prior to the local elections. They just didn't get it. I ended up asking them why it was ok for a male person to take a women's officer role but not for me, as a white person, to take a role intended for a BAME person. We went round and round in circles but they just refused to see the parallels. They are intelligent, educated and politically active women.

As for MN, well, what can I say?

For example, the world 'women' has been removed from cancer screening info, and some people really can't grasp that not everyone has a high enough standard in either English or biology to understand 'cervix havers' in place of 'women'.

That is a point worth making.

She's one of those people who (wrongly) thinks it won't affect her, so she won't accept or doesn't care that it will affect others.

She's not in prison and doesn't expect to be, so this doesn't affect her and she doesn't care about those it does.

She doesn't like or play sports, so this doesn't affect her and she doesn't care about those it does.

She's not in a job where an all women shortlist has been put in place, so she can't see how this affects her and she doesn't care about those it does.

In short, unless she's directly affected in a way she can see and understand, she doesn't give the tiniest shit about anybody else.

She will be that woman crying on the news programme. "I voted for this because I didn't think it would affect me!"

I think the message to get across:

If you are sitting in a supermarket cafe say, and see your daughter/niece/sister is followed into the toilets by a man - would you just sit there or get up and go check on her?

If not, why not?
If you would, then what would be the difference between say a man and a man with lipstick on.

Or a man with a dress on?

Where is the line?

One of the most frustrating and depressing situations I've come across was meeting with our female Labour candidate and female Chair of our local CLP prior to the local elections. They just didn't get it. I ended up asking them why it was ok for a male person to take a women's officer role but not for me, as a white person, to take a role intended for a BAME person. We went round and round in circles but they just refused to see the parallels. They are intelligent, educated and politically active women.

From experience my belief is that these people appear personality disordered, their lack of insight and empathy shows. I don't vote for or support such people. They need to be in a cult and be told what to think by the Guardian because their own morals are so off.