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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lisa Muggeridge Suspended by Twitter and Quoting her breaches MN Guidelines

353 replies

R0wantrees · 20/06/2018 22:22

I posted news that another woman has been suspended by Twitter. This seems likely as a result of targetted mass reports

Lisa Muggeridge comments at idgeofreason.wordpress.com

& recently spoke at the Inconvenient Women: We Need to Talk meeting in London.

I posted the quote by Lisa because it concerns me that women are being silenced.

My background is English Literature so my style is to leave a writer's words for others to read for themselves.

There were a number of apparent attempts to derail the thread and so when this happened, I quoted further comment by Lisa Muggeridge. To let her words speak.

I believe in the importance of free speech.

I have many books on my bookshelf, which I am sure may have contentious comments in. I don't though believe that books are dangerous or should be burned.

I also read authors who had serious failings.

I wasn't advised that there was an issue with the OP but understand that within the quoted comment was misgendering.

I felt that it was not for me to edit Lisa Muggeridge's words.

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Ereshkigal · 21/06/2018 00:57

Lisa mentioned in her blog a couple of days ago (and I mentioned on the deleted thread) that she wants to set up a YouTube channel and make regular videos about these issues. I found her a very compelling speaker at WNTT so I am looking forward to that.

R0wantrees · 21/06/2018 01:00

I'm uncomfortable editing/censoring other people's words.

Its an unusual combination of having written English Literature essays and then Social Care reportings.

It actually takes a huge amount of effort to decide what may or may not be relevent (this would only be in my opinion) and to risk misrepresenting someone else.

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R0wantrees · 21/06/2018 01:01

Ereshkigal

Yes, its especially powerful to hear a woman speak.

The meeting was really interesting.

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Bespin · 21/06/2018 01:07

So it would appear that you only. Want to have a discussion around safeguarding young woman with people who have no practical experience of actually safeguarding young woman and the issues involved with that. I am tired of armchair professionals debating what they think is required to help these people. When the reality is far more complex and difficult to work with and unfortunately ends in failure but not through lack of effort but because the resources are not there or the person is trapped in a cycle of behaviour that they can not get out of. I debate this in good faith and would happily discuss the issues around this with someone who understands them in reality as I do think there are issues to address. I have to put up with you trying to prevent me form debaamting and posting pictures of toads and in the end you don't actually wish to discuss the issues.

spontaneousgiventime · 21/06/2018 01:11

Bespin - in the end you don't actually wish to discuss the issues.

Not with you - no!

thebewilderness · 21/06/2018 01:15

So it would appear that you only. Want to have a discussion around safeguarding young woman with people who have no practical experience of actually safeguarding young woman and the issues involved with that.

I have a lifetime of practical experience in safeguarding.
Your sweeping generalizations are a violation of the talk guidelines.

R0wantrees · 21/06/2018 01:18

15 years, statutory and voluntary sector.

I don't wish to discuss this with you and it isn't a debate.

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Bespin · 21/06/2018 01:19

Brilliant then let's have a proper discussion around. The issues of safeguarding young woman who have a history of trauma and how we ensure that they are safeguarded while still respecting there rights to make unwise decisions and how we can practically work. With them to highlight the issues in relation To consent and abusive relationships

thebewilderness · 21/06/2018 01:20

Bespin
You need to learn how to take no for an answer. You cannot force women to talk about what you want the way you want. Safeguarding professionals all know this very well.

spontaneousgiventime · 21/06/2018 01:21

Bespin - Brilliant then let's have a proper discussion around. The issues of safeguarding young woman who have a history of trauma and how we ensure that they are safeguarded while still respecting there rights to make unwise decisions and how we can practically work. With them to highlight the issues in relation To consent and abusive relationships

Not with you - No!

R0wantrees · 21/06/2018 01:21

I don't wish to discuss this with you.

Presumably you can recognise the importance of respecting someone's right to say no?

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Bespin · 21/06/2018 01:25

So in the end after asking to discuss around the issues on safegurding which you haven't then done when someone does try to do that you don't want to as its not what you want to discuss. And I'm. Fine with you not wanting to discuss it with. Me its late and you don't appear to understand the issues just that you have years of experiance but have questioned my experiance in this easiler. People can decide what they want from that. But if you do decide you do what a serious debate around safegurding then please start a thread I will be happy to contribute

spontaneousgiventime · 21/06/2018 01:27

Bespin - So in the end after asking to discuss around the issues on safegurding which you haven't then done when someone does try to do that you don't want to as its not what you want to discuss. And I'm. Fine with you not wanting to discuss it with. Me its late and you don't appear to understand the issues just that you have years of experiance but have questioned my experiance in this easiler. People can decide what they want from that. But if you do decide you do what a serious debate around safegurding then please start a thread I will be happy to contribute

No is a complete sentence. We do not wish to discuss/debate/chat/engage with you on any subject.

thebewilderness · 21/06/2018 01:28

I have no interest in debating whether women have too many rights with you, Bespin.
Since that and yourself is all you have ever addressed on these boards I hope you will take this as a final no on the matter.

JuzzaL · 21/06/2018 01:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bespin · 21/06/2018 01:33

No one said anything around to many rights you all have a good. Night your way of silancing people on here does not paint. You in a good. Light and trying. To make this about my inability to respect. Your boindrys is petty this is a open forum. And as you have said you need to respect others challenging views. You tend to just focus on the person saying them and as you would know that is not good for someone who understands safegurding. See ya all tomorrow

Ereshkigal · 21/06/2018 01:38

It actually takes a huge amount of effort to decide what may or may not be relevent (this would only be in my opinion) and to risk misrepresenting someone else.

I totally get you Smile

R0wantrees · 21/06/2018 01:38

Lisa Muggeridge comment (from her post 'Famous on Mumsnet':

(extracts)
"They need me gone because we are winning. I am no threat to them, but I do threaten their identity cos I see through narcissism very easily and I know we are winning. I have been thinking about leaving twitter for ages, all that is possible there is narcissism extracting itself and exacerbating crisis. Best with narcissism to get out of its theatre and have a place where you can watch it and let it demonstrate while you be the context it can’t see and be what it can’t be. I am banned from twitter because we are winning and because this is more or less already won. I am not the reason we are winning. The whackadoodles showing how they would use power online, in a digital bubble, and how dangerous they are to women they are why we are winning. I wish I was the reason we are winning, but am not.

I joined Mumsnet ages ago and I am going to post but its been ages since I had a barney on a parenting website or got stuck in a breast v bottle debate.

Twitter is the best place to let it be demonstrated right now....

(concludes)
"We won’t don’t have to do anything but let them demonstrate, speak up, and assert the rights and laws we already have. Your time right now would be better spent showing people like James Kirkup the wider policy context and explaining to him as a Blairite that thsi is a crisis about context changing around systems, and this requires and triggers an expansion in their understanding of market forces. Don’t argue with narcissists, let them demonstrate for you. It’s much easier."

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LightofaSilveryMoon · 21/06/2018 01:38

Bespin, how do you deal with creepy fuckers who refuse to listen/accept when a woman says No?

spontaneousgiventime · 21/06/2018 01:40

Goodnight our spinning little friend.

Grizzlygrox · 21/06/2018 01:41

I just read some of LM’s blog. She fired off 22 tweets in rapid succession to, or about RK.

What triggered this as it’s not obvious from RK’s feed? I can see why this might get a suspension for targeted harassment if it was unsolicited.

What did Roz specifically do? There must have been something!

spontaneousgiventime · 21/06/2018 01:42

Oh Lord it's Grizzly now, it's like a tag team. Night all.

Ereshkigal · 21/06/2018 01:44

For those who haven't read it, this is why it's important for certain people to silence women like Lisa:

https://idgeofreason.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/recipe-for-backlash/amp/?twitterr_impression=true

Written 18 months ago. Before many were aware of what was going on.

Feel the chill down your spine.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 21/06/2018 01:46

Can you give us any detail and references, Grizzlygrox? With links? And taken in context?

Otherwise I may just conclude that you may be just trying to throw shit at a wall and hoping some of it will stick!

R0wantrees · 21/06/2018 01:54

Lisa Muggeridge commented 18 months ago:

"Take a world where it is finally possible for people to address gender dysphoria, create the medical treatment that allows the gender binary to disappear. Take many trans people, living and working(if they can get work) and trying find a way to settle the way they feel inside with the bodies God gave them. Take a society who won’t accept it, add violence, poverty, difficulty accessing healthcare and slowly but surely watch as these people fight for their right to be accepted as who they are. Add some missteps along the way, because the fight for acceptance is never straightforward and one person gaining rights often means someone else having to give way.

Add inequality, so those people just trying to live their lives, in a landscape most won’t experience, are lost behind the most vocal, the most narcissistic abusive men, who see an opportunity in the gender binary disappearing to attack the progress women have made. Add twitter. A medium where you can form an identity online, attached to nothign, and impact policy in a way never seen before. Add online tribes of narcissists forming to attack women under the guise of rights for the many trans people just trying to get by. Add high profile campaigns which sek to do nothing but silence and erase women, and drive women out of the public sphere. Add a word like TERF which allows you to openly fantasise about killing and beating women, while you call it feminism. Add online swarms who will threaten and abuse women who refuse to change their reality, perception and gender to suit these people. Add a new condition that lesbians must be forced to like cock from now on or its transphobic. Add an Oxbridge left who want violent misogyny rebranded as feminism, and add unstable misogynist narcissists dependent on mood stabilisers to defame doctors on television and fabricate allegations of sexual abuse, while offering fake statistics about child suicide. Add demands that women and girls have all protection from male violence removed, and demands that women are never mentioned. Introduce The Sun newspaper, playing on well founded fears that violent and abusive men will exploit the gender binary disappearing, by suggesting a famous child killer and rapist will have a sex change in order to get into a women’s prison. It doesn’t have to be true.

Hey presto you have a backlash. Feminism is littered with these backlashes. The abusive narcissists who exploited the gender binary disappearing get their moment in the sun and get to vent their hatred of women.

The living rooms who were oblivious to the people just trying to live their lives, access healthcare, be accepted, are told that the activists who want to vent violent misogyny, are those people. They are told that these people getting access to healthcare, protection, and acceptance is actually this misogynist culture and any recognition of violent misogyny is transphobia. They are told to accept violent misogyny which threatens children as equality for transsexuals. They are told that children who are confused about their gender will commit suicide if they are not immediately treated as transsexual, and recognise that this is disturbing abusive emotional blackmail. The people in those living rooms, recognising a dangerous culture when they see one don’t really care that this is just a nasty culture exploiting real inequality. They react. They bridle against this as any reasonable person would when faced with such dangerous and deranged demands. The cause of trans equality is set back decades. Go back to the people who just wantd to address structural inequality, to live their lives in a world where it was finally possible to address gender dysphoria. Take many trans people, living and working(if they can get work) and trying find a way to settle the way they feel inside with the bodies God gave them. Take a society who won’t accept it, add violence, poverty, difficulty accessing healthcare and slowly but surely watch as these people fight for their right to be accepted as who they are. Aware that they were so close, before elite activists, naiive students, and violent misogynists took away the progress they made so they could attack women and erase their existence.

The backlash is nearly here. It will be grim. It will be widespread and the people who will pay for it are not people like , who will go back to being a mentally unstable lawyer with all the privilege of being *, while the trans people who didn’t have an interest in violent misogyny and access to media, suffer the consequences."

this is why it is very important to not allow people to be silenced

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