DP (and fil) are against me working

[WhiteCoyote]

I honestly never thought I'd have to face an issue like this. I really need other women's voices to help lend strength to my own because I'm struggling to articulate my anger and rage into anything other than furious tears right now.

This is a long post but I've tried my best to fill in relevant details and not drip feed.

DP and I have always split the bills according to percentage earned. There's been times I've been between jobs and he's paid the bills, there's been times he has and I've paid the bills. Who pays what has never been an issue between us, and we were both decent earners.
Rather than have a joined account (which I was against after being stung in my last relationship) we'd take on individual bills that would loosely add up to us paying the fair amount - he'd pay rent and water bill, I'd take on food, council tax, electric, gas, tv licence etc.

We had a (surprise) baby 15 months ago. When we first found out I was pregnant we discussed earnings and what would happen, I let him know very clearly I intended to return to work after my maternity pay ran out, which he agreed to. This wasn't just for financial reasons, I enjoy working and like my independence.
Through my pregnancy and maternity I'd pay whatever bills I could afford and pass whatever ones I couldn't pay onto him as he was still earning full amount and a decent wage.
We can't quite afford childcare, so when my maternity pay ran out at 9 months, the agreement was he'd tell me his shifts in advance and I'd work whatever days he'd be off. DP made a few remarks about how it was too early for me to go back to work. He made a comment about how he hoped I might change my mind during my time off work and want to stay home with the baby full time. This comment absolutely cut me, but I shook it off as me being oversensitive.

Because of his shift patterns, he may work 11 days in a row then have 4 days off, or working a normal week and have a weekend off. It's quite random. Luckily I work with a very good closely knit team who have been very supportive and are happy to work my shifts in around his. I'm very thankful for them and don't know where I'd be without them. He gets his rota every 3 months in advance so when he does, I tell them what days I can work for the following months.

He now pays around 3/4 of the bills and I pay around 1/4, which is fair to our earnings. He earns around 1500 a month and I earn 500 a month. He pays around 1100 out to bills and I pay around 420, so the structure seems perfectly even to me.

A few weeks back, I was due to work a weekend. Our team was very short staffed that weekend and really needed me in. DP realised a few days before the weekend that he'd got his weeks mixed up and he was booked in for shifts that weekend. He immediately text me and told me to cancel my working shifts. I text him back telling him they weren't doctors appointments and I couldn't just cancel them, that we were short staffed and I was very relevant to work that weekend, and he'd have to swap some his shifts around to get cover. He didn't reply.

We have no family and no friends who could take on the childcare for us, it has to be one or the other of us at home at any given time.

The Friday before I was due to work he asked me if I'd managed to cancel my shifts. I told him no. He went off the rails telling me he'd get a disciplinary if he didn't show up for his weekend shifts, that his was the main wage coming in to the house so it was more important he he work. We argued for ages, I told him my wages were important too and still paid of some of the bills, and this was HIS cock up so HE had to fix it. It wasn't my place to take a fall for his mistake. We had a huge falling out, but I stood my ground and told him that there was literally no way I wasn't going to go to work.

I don't want to use the phrase "I won" as there really was no winning in the situation, but essentially I was the one to win and "get to go to work". We got through it - DP rang up work with some bullshit excuse that our son had hit his head and had to be taken to hospital so he couldn't come in, and I carried on working. It smoothed over, but I think we both still held a lot of resentment against each other.

A few weeks later, I met up with his father (along with his aunt and uncle) for a coffee like we do a couple of times a week. DP must have told him what happened because he also flew off the rails at me. He asked me what happened and I shrugged and gave him a watered down version of it, then he proceeded to tell me how in the wrong I was as DP's wage is the one that pays the bills. I corrected him and told him I still paid the bills too. FIL was furious and told me that the person who's earning more should always come first in these situations and that his wife didn't go back to work until the kids were in secondary school.
I'm proud to say that I held my ground calmly and rationally explained to him that that was 50 years ago and not the way it works now, and irregardless - we are RELIANT on my wages too. They're not pocket money. They're paying bills and if I didn't go back to work then how would be find an extra 500 a month?
He replied that if I didn't work, DP could work full time. I told him DP did work full time. He asked me if he did, how did I manage to work four days in a row the other week? I told him that was simply the way the shift patterns worked.
He didn't believe me. He genuinely thinks DP is giving up working shifts so I can work. I will add that DP's aunt was backing me up in the whole conversation, which gave me a bit of heart too.
FIL stated, again, that the one paying the bills should take precedence and we had to work together from now on.

DP did apologise that night for telling his dad about what happened. He did say his dad was in the wrong for having a go at me, but he also said "well he does have a bit of a point about the bills though."

I completely gave up after that.

A week ago, DP asked if I could cancel a shift so he could work a shift which would earn him a £200 bonus. Again, I said no, we're short staffed and the team needs me. He lamented the loss of £200 over the £70 odd I earn working an all dayer.

Again, last night, he asked the same question. The impression I get from both him and his dad is that I returned to work after my maternity to prove some feminist point about women having a right to work.

Women, how do I proceed with this? And keep my sanity?

My FIL is a generous and often kind man, but I haven't been able to look at him since that conversation.
This is driving a very irrefutable wedge between DP and I, and honestly, if something is going to split us up, this will be it.

The past couple of times I have tried talking to DP in a calm and rational way about this I end up bursting into frustrated tears (thus adding to the point to him that I am emotional and illogical about the whole situation).

I wouldn't say he is a sexist person - he's all for women taking on male roles, equal pay, rights etc - so why the fuck is he such a fucking dinosaur about this??

It’s not a generational thing, it really isn’t. Plenty of men in their 40s are not sexist arseholes!

This is a big concern too:

“This is hard as DP has a habit of over-involving him in things, lets FIL go through our paperwork etc when he comes over (not while I'm in the room obviously).”

You have a partner who doesn’t support you working and doesn’t have healthy boundaries with his father... I’m sorry but it doesn’t bode well at all.

You need to find childcare and your DP needs to contribute to it. As PPs have pointed out the finances need to be fairer too.

And you may well be better off financially without him. You’d get tax credits and (if renting) housing benefit.

I'm in a similar situation op, stbxh works shifts, I work around them. I'm self employed so have some flexibility but as my business has picked up, it's just not working any more. I asked him if he could have one set day per week where he didn't work, so I could work all day and night if necessary (He's done this in the past) but he didn't want to. All Child care fell to me, if he was at work then I had to work around school and nursery hours. Sadly, this is one of the reasons we are now separated. He didn't see my work as being as important as his. He would say all the right things, but there was no action to back up what he was saying.

He didn't see my work as being as important as his

If you take the money out of it, it comes down to you feeling your job is just as important as his. And it is. You don't just work for the money, it's about building a career, getting out of the house, meeting grown ups, and this is what you need to stress.

I like my job and I enjoy working. Pay is irrelevant.

OP, go back to Uni as a mature student. Put your lovely DC in the creche. Choose something with better career prospects than animal management. Start planning for managing on your own.

You sound extremely bright and capable. Your DH sounds like a millstone. The older and more confident you get, the less you are going to need or want him.

AskATerf what you say makes perfect sense but also makes me extremely sad. You'd think after over a century feminism would have been better ingrained into our culture, into our sons. We've still got a long way to go. It also makes me wonder how we consciously make sure we don't raise our sons in this manner.

Does he say marriage is a just piece of paper?
No, to be honest I'm the one who says that to him - he wanted marriage when we found out about the pregnancy and kept asking if/when we would marry through the months after birth. I think he's given up on the idea now. I couldn't even tell him why I didn't want marriage, I think I knew deep down what all the pp have been saying and it makes perfect sense now.

Have you told your DP of your ambitions?
A loving partner should support and help you achieve your dreams.
He does support me on paper, until I start talking about how maybe he can try to arrange with work about having regular nights off work so I can go to college. The conversation always goes the same way which ends in him asking if I regret having a baby so young as it's delayed my career choices. But then reiterates that he wants me to be happy and do what I want to do. It's a mind fuck a lot of the time.
He's not doing all this on purpose, with greatest respect to him he's not smart enough to deliberately be emotionally controlling - it's the sexist conditioning he's had from his father.

GreenTulips
I have told him exactly that and I think that's what him and FIL think I go to work exclusively for, and that's where FIL got his anger from - he thought it was selfish to put those reasons above more money. Neither of them appreciate the money I do actually pay towards the bills and that's going to change when I sit down with DP tonight and go through all this.

Bookvan I'm sorry about your situation it sounds very frustrating. Even though you're split up, you're still stuck working around his shifts? I worry about that if me and DP do split up - he'd make it a lot harder for me by not actually telling me shifts in advance.

Choose something with better career prospects than animal management.
What do you think would be a better career prospect? I'm not being sarky, genuinely curious It just seemed to make sense to me to work for something I'm passionate about.

Thank for all massively for the moral-boosting messages and best wishes - I've read every single one and keep coming back to all of them over and over and it's given me all the more determination to get into higher education this year or next come hell or high water. I'm not wasting my life.

White I know two very competent, confident young people who were passionate about working with animals, with great academics and work experience. One has a 2.1 in animal behaviour and is working as a biology teacher, one has a 2.1 in zoology and is currently unemployed. Apparently there are plenty of people happy to work with animals for free and jobs are like gold dust.

What else are you interested in? You are very literate for someone without much formal education. I would think you could get to uni on an access course and bypass formal exams.

@whitecoyote yes I still have to work around his shifts. Tbh it's harder, but at least I'm not pretending that we're a team and in it together. I assume he's not around, I sort childcare and work around that instead. If he does end up being there to take the dcs then I see that as a bonus.

My advice to you would be to study now while your dc is young. By the time they're in school you'll have a qualification and be able to get a better paid job.

You are fucking awesome, OP.

Have you looked at the MSE benefits calculator? www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/benefits-check/

You might be able to get help with rent, council tax and childcare costs. You could also look at how much support you'd get if you decided to do it on your own. One of the things that gives me comfort is knowing that if DP and I were to split, I could cope financially by myself. Completely agree with pp.- go to college, do an access course and go to uni to do something that interests you and will help you in your future career. It's tough with a little one but it's possible. And you will love it. Do it while you're young. Best of luck, lovely!

tinklylittlelaugh ah ok that makes sense. I’m literate as I devoured every book I possibly could in my spare time in the years after mum took me out of school. I was reading Hannibal by the time I was 14. I don’t talk as well as I write unfortunately! There’s many courses that catch my eye, mostly art, literature and biology, but what career I can roll with I don’t know.

toomuchtvtooyoung
Thank you very much
That’s actually a very useful tool to have hidden somewhere because thinking that I couldn’t cope financially on my own has stopped me leaving dp once. I’ll be filling that out tomorrow.

Regardless of everything there’s still ds’s well-being and all other factors involved. Women’s choices are never easy are they.

Your DP is being an arsehole, but I think you know that. The key practical issue is that if you let this continue or let him and his father pressure you into quitting your job then you will be entirely dependent on him. Nobody ever wants to think about relationships ending but sometimes they do, and if that were to happen then you'd be a far more vulnerable position than you are now.

Do you have any friends who can back you up on this irl? A conversation definitely needs to happen and some boundaries need to be set (no you can't just cancel shifts at the last minute, no you're not going to give up your job, he needs to tell his father to back the fuck off). Maybe it would help to have a friend either there with you or there to give you a pep talk beforehand, and to vent to afterwards. He's not going to like you asserting yourself, but you need to do it.

OP =-im also impressed with what you have written, how about a teacher?

you seem to have your head screwed on right, and not letting your team down because 'd'p has messed up his shifts tells me you have your priorities right

no helpful advice, but just wanted to wish you best of luck!!

The fact that he lied about his age and is so much older is a massive red flag when combined with the other issues. As someone said upthread, this isn't a generational issue - my DH is older than your partner and not even half as sexist about stuff like this. I'm guessing it's actually the dad that's responsible for DPs sexist attitudes, and again, as impressive as it is that you stood up to him he now needs to be told to mind his own business, and not just by you.

Maybe DPs sister is a potential person to recruit to back you up since she already did when her dad was throwing his caveman tantrum? She's presumably been dealing with this nonsense from both father and brother her whole life.

It might be useful to check out the careers advice at your local college when looking at different courses. Universities also give advice on potential job prospects.

In general, studying a subject is always easier if it's something you're interested in.

I don't think it's uncommon for women to find themselves 'supported on paper' with their ambitions but the reality is quite often different.

Basically, you're either going to stay with your DP or you're not. Either way you'll need to earn money. If you stay then you'll be in your early forties by the time he retires -would you both be able to live off just his pension ? I imagine it'd be difficult.
And obviously if you split up you'll need to support yourself and your DC.

OP, from someone who has kids your age, you come across as a very impressive young woman.

Don't worry too much about your missing education. Both my sons had their education massively disrupted due to ill health. One is training to be a plumber, not because he's interested but because it pays well and he wants to work for himself.

The other basically educated himself and is now a business analyst with his own department despite having no A levels.

Your problem is your DP. I find myself quite disturbed that he lied to you about his age. It's such a big lie that I think I'd have been looking for the door just on those grounds. And this ganging up against you with his DF. A bit creepy, to my mind. Two men who "know better" than you. Are they significantly better educated than you? I don't remember you mentioning this.

The fact that you previously wanted to leave but didn't feel able to because of money is another red flag. Does he know that? Because if he does that combined with trying to stop you from working is very worrying.

I was thinking about you on the way back from dropping DS at creche. I totally get it: as so many others have said, there's so much more to working than just the money. The money is also important and I do think you need to discuss your shared finance in terms of time spent rather than money earned. That may have worked before you had a child together but now you do it's not as though you're just kicking back when he's at work: you're parenting his child and no doubt also doing wife-work around the house.

I was always the main earner until I lost my job just before DS2 was born. I'm working hard now to try and work freelance so I can fit it around the kids while they're small. I'm quite a lot older though, which means I have already built up a solid skill base and also have a solid network, but even with that in place it's tough! Somehow I've become the default carer and my DP rarely asks me what time I need during the day to get my work done, so childcare is a godsend and I'd be totally stuffed without it! If you can find a way to afford it or find work that enables you to work alongside childcare, you can get way more done and on your own terms because you don't need to ask for permission to do whatever you want/need to do.

I was thinking what might work for you. Did you say upthread that you wanted to work with animals? If so, have you thought about self-employment opportunities, like dog walking, pet sitting, grooming? As others have said you sound smart and motivated so I'm sure you could easily set up something like that on your own with minimal training. And the first two of those you could do, especially dog walking, you could do with your baby in tow (if you have a carrier). You'd need help with promotion and things like that but there are some great business support networks for women and especially women getting back to work and setting up solo post-children. Something you can get up and running quickly then build on by seeking out qualifications later once your little one is at school. You're still young - there's plenty of time! Whatever you decide, if I were you I'd be aiming for as much financial independence as possible from your DP. Don't let yourself be reliant on anyone - then you always have options.

It might be worth chatting to the college about the animal management course entry requirements. My dd only has two GCSEs due to health problems but was easily accepted into an animal care level 2 qualification (entry requirements 5 GCSEs) as they understood not everyone goes the same route. I hope you manage to get something sorted.

AngryAttackKittens I agree. He might try to get you pregnant again to hold you back.