3 strikes and you're out

[spontaneousgiventime]

Sorry to start this thread but I'm livid. I'm beyond livid to be fair.

I'm now on strike two and have been warned my posting privilege is at risk.

The reason for this thread is; please don't take the new guidelines at face value. I got a strike today for calling a man who presents as a woman a name NOT on the banned list. Obviously now I can't say what it was, I am effectively gagged.

I now have six weeks of no free speech until the strikes I have are wiped - again effectively gagged.

So, you won't see me much as I will NOT refer to men who present as women as the names we are allowed to call them, so will end up banned. I will post bland banal comments that can't offend any sensibilities here and let rip elsewhere where free speech is encouraged.

PLEASE, please, watch your words or MN will use this as a reason the close the FWR board.

[ScarletBegonias]

I too like the idea of having to click on something to show it.

Twitter does something similar, doesn't it, with content that "may be offensive" hidden until clicked upon.

[Datun]

It's so counter-productive for HQ to delete posts which offend people.

The whole basis of the objection to this ideology is quite how many men are offensive, and are willing to distress women. Whilst simultaneously demanding that women remove safeguarding barriers.

Deleting all evidence of this is equally, if not more, offensive.

[R0wantrees]

I have just had a copy of the deleted post.

There is nothing in it that hasn't been said by other posters on other threads.

It is really important that it is reinstated @MNHQ

[Datun]

If they have sent you a copy of it Ro, perhaps you can just post it here? In quotes so as not to offend?

Would that be ok HQ?

[Maryzsnewaccount]

If you would like, Rowan, pm it to me.

I have no strikes (yet) so would be happy to post it so that you don't get another deletion.

You'll have to send it to this name, though, I can't get in to my usual account.

[R0wantrees]

Thanks, I'm happy to wait and hopefully @MNHQ will reconsider this.

I think it matters that it is reinstated within the thread,

I will find out from MN what my options are should they be unable /unwilling to reinstate the post.

[LangCleg]

The whole basis of the objection to this ideology is quite how many men are offensive, and are willing to distress women. Whilst simultaneously demanding that women remove safeguarding barriers.

Deleting all evidence of this is equally, if not more, offensive.

YY

[daughterofanarchy]

Lurker here. For the first time ever I have just put my thoughts about this matter on Facebook. Will see what happens on there and the sort of responses I will get. Looking forward to being involved in the debates on mumsnet as well

[R0wantrees]

@HebeMumsnet
I don't know how modding works, but as you replied to me earlier today may I ask if MN is following up the points that I & others have made by email and on this thread?

I am pretty patient but am wondering when there might be an update.

Please also see this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3282635-Can-we-discuss

[SpareRibFem]

daughtersofanarchy well done, making people in our immediate circles aware is the best thing we can do

[NotAnotherNoughtiesTune]

I just don't get some of the trans movement.

It's almost always the ones bornmale identifying as female, the ftm kick up a lot less of a fuss.

But if we take associating themselves with a woman with fertility problems plight then if I was a ftm transperson would it be fair that I be deeply hurt that I can't penetrate a woman witty my penis? That I'd be deeply hurt that I can't father a son? Because we don't hear this often.

I think abetter idea is for them to class themselves as 'Other' in a poll instead of the sex they wish they were.

Bare in mind other than genitalia they can verymuch be feminine if born a manor masculine if Norma female. I hate even saying feminine/masculine but I mean traditionally associated with male/female.

[HebeMumsnet]

Hi again R0wanTrees. Sorry we've been away a while. Lots of reports to deal with this week, as you can imagine.

We've had another look at the post and at the many reports we had asking for it to be removed and we're sorry, but it is still a no. We think it was the right decision to remove it still and we haven't seen anything to change our minds since we're afraid.

It is our policy to remove posts that break Talk Guidelines and we think we need to stick with that. Hope you understand.

[ErrolTheDragon]

DaughterOfAnarchy - if you're out there on FB, a link to the petition
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 might be an idea - I don't see how anyone could object to its mild request.

[R0wantrees]

@HebeMumsnet
thank you for your reply.

I don't understand it no.

There are other similar posts where trans women have said that they have similar experiences to women (like me) who are infertile or have had hysterectomies.

Are these to be deleted?

The context of the deleted post is very important.

I do not wish to share my personal circumstances repeatedly.

I would rather discuss this privately but my posts, emails and report posts where I explain the importance of this further (politely and respectfully) have gone unacknowledged.

I do of course recognise how much work the mods have to do and have read the new guidance carefully.

[R0wantrees]

@HebeMumsnet
I don't even know if the report posts or emails have been received by @MNHQ since they have not been acknowledged.

You may not be aware but 10 days ago, my account expereinced significant 'glitches' with communication with @Mumsnet and PMs with other members.

I was assured that there was nothing 'sinister' about this but also that the 'glitch' was still being investigated.

[R0wantrees]

I don't believe it was the specific content of the deleted post.

The poster was being goady and broke a number of TalkGuidelines since they arrived on the I'm S p a r t a c u s thread late last night.

They had been reported by a number of posters and the comment which was in direct response to my request that they consider the wider consequences and circumstances for women who have hysterectomies may well have attracted more 'reports'. I believe though, these were primarily attempts to report the poster.

Their other posts remain, including ones which appropriate the specific experience of females.

There have been a number of similar comments to the post that is banned eg

"Fun female fact No.2>>

"What you say is true. Trans women cannot get pregnant and have children. This is a fact that saddens me as I always wanted to.

I also want to reach out to with cis women who also cannot have children of their own."

"I am also a woman who doesn't have ovaries or a uterus"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3214354-T?pg=18

In this thread, many posters shared their perspective and experiences. Comments were challenged and a wide number of issues were aired. This was free civil debate even though some of the comments will have been very difficult for many (on all sides of the wider debate) to hear.

The thread stands and so others can read it.

I would like to have the deleted post reinstated for this reason.

I would also like @MNHQ to advise me if I can quote it.

I like a quote and an accurate reference. I think this is important, that information is available so that things do not become obfuscated or misunderstood.

I do not wish to be deleted, especially in the context of the new guidelines.

[mancheeze]

I want the TA posts to remain. I want this post to R0wantrees to be restored too. I want people to peaktranz many times a day.

[BarrackerBarmer]

I have just stumbled over a post of mine which was deleted. I haven't received an email and I can't remember what I posted that could possibly have broken guidelines.

I've also discovered that if you try to search your own posts to see how many have been deleted, there is no record in search results of any deleted post. I'm sure it used to say something like 'BarrackerBarmer: time/date: post deleted by MNHQ.

Now there is no evidence within search that the post existed at all.

How long is it taking for people to receive their emails and is the original post content included in the email so that you can work out what infraction you committed?

[Maryzsnewaccount]

I've just realised that Barracker, and I think it's new.

If you search in the past under a name and "message deleted by mumsnet" you get loads of posts come up. But not recently

It's a shame, because there is no way of knowing how many posts are being deleted - but then maybe that's the idea.

[LangCleg]

I'm assuming that some deletions don't count as strikes? Hadn't occurred to me that I could search for my own deleted posts but now it has, I'm annoyed if that function has been taken away!

[BarrackerBarmer]

That must have been a management decision, and I'm not impressed.

Here are some contradictory and ambiguous guidelines.
If you break them we'll delete and ban you
we won't tell you when, how or why you broke them
oh, and we've removed your ability to find out for yourself.

Good luck with that, suckers.

[MipMipMip]

That Westbrook link was fascinating. Thank you for sharing.

[spontaneousgiventime]

My second strike, post was made in the evening, later on. Strike e-mail lunch time next day.

[doctorcuntybollocks]

I'm not surprised that the rules are kept vague. They're hardly going to set up a minefield and then tell us where the mines are.

[Datun]

Aren't they saying that you will only get an email if you're breaching these new guidelines.

If your post is deleted and you don't get an email, then that doesn't count towards your three strikes, presumably? It's just a normal common or garden deletion. Nothing to do with acceptable trans terminology, but more a personal attack or whatever the rules say.