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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

A bit of good news about 'upskirting'

84 replies

enoughisenoughtoday · 15/06/2018 10:18

It's going to be made a criminal offence with a 2 year jail sentence .
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-offence-of-upskirting-to-carry-two-year-jail-term-nmtjwtgt6?shareToken=515d5b6f7e9e27e09b4aa039fdabc2ef

Well done to all those women who have fought for this to happen

OP posts:

Ereshkigal · 15/06/2018 10:20

That's great. Something good

BarbarianMum · 15/06/2018 10:25

Can anyone explain to me why this law was necessary? I don't understand how it could possibly have been legal before. Am I just being incredibly naive?

daimbars · 15/06/2018 10:26

Excellent news! Something we can all agree on at least.

silkpyjamasallday · 15/06/2018 10:31

It is good news, it will be interesting to see how many prosecutions there are for this sort of crime though, considering how easily rapists avoid being punished for their crimes. I saw a petition to make unsolicited ‘dick pics’ a criminal offense too, akin to flashing,hopefully in light of this it will actually make it to legislation too.

ChickenMe · 15/06/2018 10:53

That's really good - then there will be no ambiguities. I understand they get a fair bit of this on the trains.

In this case an ex-social worker was convicted and the transport police searched his house:

www.communitycare.co.uk/2013/12/16/social-worker-caught-taking-photos-womans-skirt-train-platform-struck-register/

(There's a better story in the DM)

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/06/2018 10:56

That's excellent news.

ChickenMe · 15/06/2018 10:58

Can anyone explain to me why this law was necessary? I don't understand how it could possibly have been legal before. Am I just being incredibly naive?

I'm not too sure what the loop holes were. There was always "outraging public decency" to prosecute for and surely, if the victim was aware of it, a public order offence? Presumably there were cases that didn't fit either offence but "outraging.." is really broad (some fascinating case law on "outraging.." included prosecution of someone who made earrings out of aborted foetuses)

notacooldad · 15/06/2018 11:00

Can anyone explain to me why this law was necessary? I don't understand how it could possibly have been legal before. Am I just being incredibly naive?

I have had that point for a long time.

I remember asking my son ( with me playing devils advocate) asking what he thought and like everyone decent minded person said 'it's sexual harassment, aren't there laws already in place about this?'

However it's great news.

LighthouseSouth · 15/06/2018 11:04

I too didn't understand why a specific law was necessary - it could have been prosecuted under other laws in the first place.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 15/06/2018 11:07

That is good news! But I'm another who can't understand how it wasn't already a crime.

GenderApostate · 15/06/2018 11:27

Yes, good news. I follow Professor Clare Mcglyn on twitter - she has campaigned for this relentlessly.

hackmum · 15/06/2018 11:30

I have to confess, I have never understood this upskirting business. How do you get close enough to someone to take a photograph up their skirt? Logistically, how does it work? Surely if anyone tried it, you'd be aware they were doing it? And has anyone ever seen any "upskirt" photos published in newspapers? I'm pretty sure I haven't.

GenderApostate · 15/06/2018 11:39

There are special cameras to put on shoes, never underestimate what lengths perverts go to in order to destroy Womens’ boundaries.
It’s also very easy somewhere with open stairs or on escalators.

shiklah · 15/06/2018 11:42

A close friend of my BF's DH was caught with a specially adapted bag on the tube. He had a camera built into it for filming. He'd filmed some minors so got a prison sentence. He is out now and everyone is acting like it's fine. BF's exH even wanted to take their 12YO daughter to a party he was at.

It's incredibly disturbing how many people view this as 'fun' and not abuse.

LighthouseSouth · 15/06/2018 11:43

hackmum - crowded Tube, concert, etc etc

bend down to get something from your bag, or tie your shoelace - there - you've taken an upskirt picture.

shiklah · 15/06/2018 11:43

Hackmum. It has happened to me on the train and on the bus (I was going upstairs).

LighthouseSouth · 15/06/2018 11:43

shiklah - cross post

OMD! That man should be shunned and spoken to by absolutely no one. Fucking weirdo.

notacooldad · 15/06/2018 11:44

hackmum
One common example could be Young girls going up escalators in a mall are often victims of upskirting.
If you are a 12 or 13 year old girl and there are several boys with a mobile camera behind you trying to take a picture of your knickers to put on YouTube, that is pretty intimidating and scary.

The paparazzi are always trying to do it to female celebrities.
Nasty, horrible practice from males designed to shame and humiliate girls and women.

SouthernComforts · 15/06/2018 11:44

Did anyone hear the comment on BBC breakfast earlier? I was in another room so only heard it - regarding why this has been law in Scotland for so long but not the rest of the UK. Her response was 'men wear kilts in Scotland. When men are the victims the law seems to be brought in much quicker' along those lines. Anyone know who it was?

ColinsVeryJolly · 15/06/2018 11:47

A guy who lives close to me was arrested when his wallet was handed in to the police assuming it was lost. When the police looked in it there was a hidden camera inside.

He’d taken ‘upskirt’ images of young girls as well as older women. Dirty fucker.

AssassinatedBeauty · 15/06/2018 11:47

If it stops paparazzi doing this to female celebrities that would be great. It's grim how they dive around when women are getting in and out of cars, and it is bizarre that just because they are wearing underwear it's not illegal.

LighthouseSouth · 15/06/2018 11:53

I'm sure I saw Cate Blanchett being interviewed at some awards and then caught a photographer trying to do an upskirt shot.

Original poster

enoughisenoughtoday · 15/06/2018 12:05

I believe that there have been a number of incidents where women have complained about this and been told it's not against the law. Like so much else in terms of crime, there are different responses from different police forces. This Independent article explains it quite well: (and shocking that there are 10 year olds involved - surely that paedophilia?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/upskirt-photos-law-illegal-criminal-offence-needed-campaigners-statistics-10-girls-children-police-a8218491.html

OP posts:

deydododatdodontdeydo · 15/06/2018 12:07

And has anyone ever seen any "upskirt" photos published in newspapers? I'm pretty sure I haven't.

Yes, I've seen it and I don't read rag newspapers, so probably clicked on an online version.
Can't remember the celebrities, but getting out of a car and uncrossing legs I've definitely seen that with fairly famous celebrities.

LighthouseSouth · 15/06/2018 12:20

also, so what if you've not seen upskirt photos in a paper or online

the fact that the law has been letting them get away with taking them for their own enjoyment is a major problem.

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