Who have we lost?

[Pratchet]

I hope uterati comes back. I have seen all the great women today plus lots of new ones.

You are very kind, Pratchet, and I love you all back, but I gotta say that five deleted comments in one thread feels like silencing to me.

It IS silencing but you are still here and still talking, and you make so much sense. You are being specifically targeted for reporting precisely because you are so good at debate and you make so much sense. It's a sign of success. We mustn't lose you.

When you and babel do the TRA two-step it's a thing of beauty.

I'm also a lurker who's spreading the word around me too. Previously I thought trans rights were something to not be too too concerned with ( maybe supportive in a general "it doesn't affect me"kind of way) well........ it's only by having all the issues explained to me here that I've realised the dangers of this, that the knowledge of the various viewpoints and possible ramifications of gender self I'd is not really known by the general public.

Majority of Feminists piss off elsewhere, the "let's be nice to everyone" feminists remain with the goaders.

I'm ashamed to say I'm one of those feminists. But I admire and respect the less politic feminists here. We can't change things if only us cowards remain. please don't all get banned or bugger off.

Your analysis is spot on dolorsit.
We have seen it before, and I guess, we are at the mid-point of it happening here.

I know some of you don't think it is 'game over' yet, but that new statement on moderation makes it very clear to me where this will end up.

I'm not going either. I like it here.

Lots of people have left already. I did for a long time, but now I pop in from time to time. I doubt any of you will remember me - I was here in the days of dittany and SGM.

This is one issue that has brought me back, as I believe it is important.

I think its important we stay and carry on discussing these issues. There is absolutely nothing stopping us from using MN as a noticeboard for links out to other resources and to signpost other sites/boards where the discussion is not curtailed. If that does become an issue we will at least have given enough pointers for us to regroup elsewhere.

I'm rolling up my sleeves ready to delurk after a long break.

I’ll stay until I’m banned. :) I feel MN is a fairly sensible place, they are perhaps under pressure we can’t see and reacting to it.

So I’m here and I’ll try to stay here. Thank you all for opening my eyes to this.

And I have been on other forums as a lurker but ironically I found them to be motivated more by dislike of transpeople than by safety of women and children. That’s not and never has been my angle or opinion, so I prefer here.

I'm so torn by this.

On the one hand I'm asking how I can stay with a commercial website that is engaging in the wholesale silencing of women, as MN has done this week.

On the other, I'm really, really obstinate - and nothing makes me want to post on MN more than a load of misogynists trying to stop me.

It's fairly clear to me that HQ is under immense pressure from TRAs who want to shut this board down - and they're trying to walk the tightrope. They've done this badly IMO over the past few days, because the TRAs are still moaning on Twitter, and they've upset their members on here. I wish they'd just dig their heels in and support their members here - the women, mothers, feminists - rather than letting a load of men's sexual rights activists dictate to them from Twitter - but there you go

This is an important feminist space, always has been. That's why they attack us. It is one of the only female-dominated, high profile, politically active spaces on the internet - and we should fight for it.

Bewilderness - please stay.

I've been away for a wee while and just catching up now. It was actually t'husband who alerted me to the new moderation policy, he read about it in the papers. In a way, it's a tribute to the quality of the debate that's been had here, in a kind of "first, they laugh at you" kind of way.

I do find it interesting that there is this fervour to shut down Mumsnet. Because Mums shouldn't BE like this! Illustrative of the pervasive misogyny at the heart of this debate.

But I digress. I don't tend to get deleted very often (only once as far as I'm aware, for being a bit direct about my low, low opinion about the backslapping Caitlyn Jenner received when recounting tales of their activities with a junior Jenner's clothing) and I am hopeful I can work within the guidelines and remain undeleted. But it's still not good, and I am fearful that the modding will be heavy handed and will impact on how other more clear sighted and direct posters are able to express themselves. I want to hear all voices in this debate, and am really sad about the requirement to be nice being imposed on a fucking feminist board

This is an important feminist space, always has been. That's why they attack us. It is one of the only female-dominated, high profile, politically active spaces on the internet - and we should fight for it.

Exactly. It’s really the ONLY mainstream feminist space IMO. I’m staying as long as I’m able.

I'm going to stay if I can. If I can work within the new policy (which I don't consider fair) I will do so. Trans lobbyists cannot win a debate with gender critical feminists unless they can silence us. Mumsnet rules stop them shouting us down as they do in other parts of the web.

While we can continue speaking calmly, logically, about the impact of this nonsense on women and children, lurkers will still become inspired and informed.

In the current dire situation, knowledge and truth are our power. Let's persist.

I've been here through bannings and name changed. I didn't leave then but the fact I've seen it before makes me more angry this time and I don't want to see our most vocal contributors go. I consider every woman's voice on this forum important but some people do go above and beyond and I'll support them. I use other forums but I've felt like MN is my forum home - that's because of the women here, they make the forum and that is what I'll keep in mind if people start being lost.

I want us to be able to reorganise elsewhere in that event. I don't want us to lose touch. I think it is vital we are a group. You women are important to me.

Delurking to say I love this board and the intelligent conversations here.

I seem to have missed what’s going on, but I hope people stay.

(If anyone feels like PMing me alternative feminist boards, thank you!)

I'm mostly a lurker, but am showing my support by adding a suffix to my user name.

As an aside to my earlier post.

I'm still there on a number of forums. I'm there to read about the news/hobby/gaming which is the main focus of the website.

I am seeing awareness spread. I am seeing male, female, "nice feminists" and people who are not feminists wake up to what is happening. It's often driven by what the transactivists are saying themselves, LM being a prime example.

Mumsnet is playing its part and often on these diverse forums I see the same talking points arising.

I've been reading forums from the early days of the Internet. I have never seen this happen before without some sort of central campaign focus group. It really is quite amazing.

I'm also going to stay. (While also going elsewhere.)

But I have red lines. I will not use appropriated terms for the female sex to refer to or describe people of the male sex. I won't do it. Ever.

I won't be doing any personal attacks but it will be a cold day in hell before I call any man by a term that has woman in it. And I won't sneak off like a thief in the night. MNHQ will have to ban me.

Dolorsit: thank you for that encouraging news

Can I urge women to stay and still discuss these issues. I understand your anger, but you are influencing a lot of people. Women read these discussions who would never come across these viewpoints anywhere else.

I won't be doing any personal attacks but it will be a cold day in hell before I call any man by a term that has woman in it. And I won't sneak off like a thief in the night. MNHQ will have to ban me.

This.