Taking it out on your body - exploring possible roots

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

This post emerges from a conversation started on another thread about the possible links between various conditions involving hurting one’s body, that I have called collectively “taking it out on your body”.

I thought a useful backdrop to this discussion is this:

The essence of radical feminism is the highlighting of the subjugation and marginalisation of women, by frequently consigning them to roles defined by men. This can mirror enslavement. This socialisation of women starts very early - I would contend in utero. It can certainly start early in the family and is fostered at societal and cultural levels and now is very heavily fuelled by social media.

These remarks are taken from Sheila Jeffreys at the recent Inconvenient Women WNTT event:

It is on the basis of sex that women are oppressed and on that basis that women rights are founded. It is in international law that sex is the basis of the granting of women’s rights.
..

The idea of gender arises from the oppression of women and cannot exist without it. Gender comprises behaviour and appearance norms required of men and women. Femininity is one half of gender and is the enforced behaviour of the oppressed, that is women. It includes humiliating clothing norms such as high heels, decoration, body exposure, body covering as well as the restriction of body movement, for example not taking up much space and so on.

It is based on the notion that women’s brains are somehow different from those of men, in ways that make them suited to such behaviour, make them rightfully subordinate and suited for doing the housework

The sparking comment on the other thread was this one:

user1499173618 Thu 14-Jun-18 08:43:48
BowlofBabelFish - the common thread between anorexia, bulimia, self-harm, trichotillomania, nail biting, gender dysphori (and, perhaps,tattooing, piercing) etc is deep-seated failure of recognition and denial of emotions. Human emotions are very real things but the gaslighting by society at large of human need and emotion causes immense confusion that results in people turning on themselves when they are not equipped to deal with the onslaught from the world at large.

To which I responded:

Emotional and psychological abuse targeting women, at family and societal level and now pervasive on SM, denies, discounts and coerces women away from their rightful autonomy and freedom of thought and being. This abuse can be somaticised by many women into blaming themselves, as the only tolerable, psychological alternative at an early age. This can lead to various manifestations of self harm and/ or taking it out on one's body. That is not women's fault but the environment they were raised in, where abuse is normalised and they are scapegoated.

From that point it was decided to start a separate thread.

Bump

I think there are some extremely intelligent women on this thread. I agree with what SummerKelly said ‘it takes months or years of rewiring neural pathways’, it is true, but it can and does happen. ‘You can recognise though that the emotion might be something to do with your past and not your present and that an emotion doesn't have to lead to a particular consequence. There are very valid reasons you feel the way you do.’ Completely agree with this.

I agree that the medical model emphasises ‘chemical imbalances’ etc, when really the focus should be on societal and situational circumstances, and how one has been conditioned to respond to them, which as SummerKelly has said can be changed over time.

I also agree with mancheeze ‘It's GOOD to be self-ish’. We as women need to prioritise ourselves much, much more, it isn’t really selfish even, it is just what is right and what every other group does. If we don’t prioritise ourselves no one else will, in fact others will usually try to take advantage of us.

Talking about the current situation, men are so used to women prioritising them over ourselves, they think we are selfish when we show even the smallest hint of putting our own needs above their demands. I have no intention of putting males wants above what is best for women, non whatsoever, my priority is women and children and always will be.

I think all of the women on this thread are strong and courageous, the stories that people have shared show how much strength women really have, even if we are not always aware of it.

Thanks Artemis - my eyes were opened to this by a women's project that I was working with and their realisation about the number of women they were seeing who had experienced trauma. I did a lot of reading about it and I was honestly shocked at the amount of stuff that is actually in existence about the prevalence and impact of trauma and how to work with it versus what is common knowledge, I.e. very little, even amongst health and social care workers. I actually think it's a scandal that many of us have been retraumatised by the sometimes callous behaviour of "professionals" (I'm sure not all professionals but no one helped me) who have not recognised our distress and our actual physical incapability of being able to do anything different because it's wired into our bodies, and instead failed to believe us, labelled us attention seeking or blamed us for the behaviour that actually helped us to survive in a dangerous and unpredictable world.

I am angry because not only did I have the hell of my 20s to live through (in some ways I feel just as traumatised by my self harming behaviour in my 20s than I was by the original abuse) but I now have physical health problems as a result.

There definitely is more awareness these days, but a lot of that is still at the level of rhetoric than real understanding.

Sorry I still haven't read the whole thread (am bracing myself because I think it will upset me) but this is an excellent article on female rage mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/magazine/i-used-to-insist-i-didnt-get-angry-not-anymore.html

to all the amazing, intelligent, strong women on this thread, I’m so sorry that there are so many of us that go through this. It is almost comforting to know that you are not alone in feeling so lost.

I can relate to so many of these posts, I only recently started to categorise the things I do/have done to myself as self harm or punishment. It started with starving myself, then binging and purging as a young teen, moved on to risky sex, smoking, drinking and drugs as an older teen, then onto slashing myself with keys, hitting myself with heavy books, throwing myself against walls and then morphed into staying in abusive relationships, having sex I didn’t want and trying to help or fix the horrible men I had coupled up with. It all came from my desire to put forward the perfect image of myself and to never fail or give up at anything, I was suffering so much but I couldn’t and wouldn’t tell anyone, I believed because of my background and the privileges I enjoyed (wealthy nuclear family, private education, never wanted for anything materially etc) I didn’t have the right to feel as awful as I did every single day, that there was something wrong with me and I just needed to do better. Having my daughter crystallised it all for me, it has been a long and difficult journey to forgiving myself and letting the anger go, but I am getting there slowly but surely I think. I am determined that my daughter will not have the same pressures from me as I had from my parents at the very least, as I know I can’t change societal expectations of women. My parents were well meaning, but I was so desperate to please them and make them proud that I didn’t even have any fun as a child, I denied myself normal childhood experiences so never learnt from mistakes as I never made any and as a teen was chronically stressed and unhappy trying to stay afloat. I feel that until recently, my whole life has been fake, a lie, whatever you want to call it.

Im angry that I wasted so much of my life putting on a performance of perfection, I don’t think anyone knows who I really am, because I don’t know myself. Everything I have ever done has been to please others, I have denied and ignored my inner self for so long that it barely exists, harming myself was when I felt most like a real person and allowed myself to feel and indulge in emotional pain through the physical.

silkpyjamas

I can very much relate to the well-meaning parents that you don’t want or feel able to let down, but who don’t give you the space to explore who you are and what matters to you.

I hope that the sharing of our stories will enable some collective insights into the forces of female oppression. And where feminism,should be heading. I have my own beliefs and ideas about this but don’t feel ready to share them yet.

Copied from the autistic women's thread as I think it applies here too...

Bringing this over here as I didn't want to "me me me" on the site stuff thread - I wrote about relying on mn.

I really don't think anyone who is not extremely socially isolated due to the sum of many factors can understand just how much some women rely on mn. And as much as I hate to say it, I believe that the women decision makers here are among those who understand the least.

Tbh that is making me feel low more than the rule changes. It may not be instant, but over time I can adapt to new rules. Feeling that someone you hope has your back actually doesn't "get it" at all is horrible.

Dermatillomania is particularly bad atm. I like Winter as I can hide my skin

I believe that the women decision makers here are among those who understand the least

Very sadly, some women in positions of power are in bed with the oppressor. They compromise their own sex for personal gain.

Feeling that someone you hope has your back actually doesn't "get it" at all is horrible.

Yes the hostility in their bystander bullying and lack of concern for women survivors of male violence is very, very disappointing and palpable. They know not what they do.

The good news is we have a little community here and lots of supportive women

Whose agenda are we being asked to follow? Whose interests are being prioritized?

Currently reading one of the Peter Levine books as recommended upthread. Very interesting and relevant. The possibility of being in a frozen, immobilised state following trauma is something more people should be aware of.

A few years ago, there was a thread on MN which discussed the Marc Dutroux case from Belgium. There was a link to some documents where the type of abuse suffered by the victims was detailed. It was so horrific that I had to stop reading. One of the things which stayed with me though was the deliberate strategy of ‘breaking’ them mentally. Many were diagnosed with multiple personality disorder and as a consequence were seen as ‘unreliable’ witnesses.

It really bothers me that a way of surviving terrible events is deemed to make a person less trustworthy and as a consequence, more easily dismissed.

for everyone.

I was raped by a boy I was at school with. I’ve never been able to get angry about it but the systematic failure of every single person or organisation I came into contact with afterwards is the bit that really messed me up I think. School, doctor, police, parents all totally failed me.

I hope that the sharing of our stories will enable some collective insights into the forces of female oppression. And where feminism,should be heading. I have my own beliefs and ideas about this but don’t feel ready to share them yet.

This sounds really valuable.

Boldly, I know the exact Dutroux link you mean, it's been imprinted on my brain for years now. Think I'll have a look for these books too.

fortunate :(

FortuneCookie - what you typed really resonates with me. No matter how awful some of the things I went through were, it was the reactions of people, professionals, and organisations that really screwed with my self-worth too.

I believe women's only spaces, both online and off, are one of the ways we can heal. At the Truro event it really struck me how utterly safe it felt for me emotionally. I think other women felt the same - women shared their stories, both during the Q&A and afterwards at the bar. There was a lot of hugging going on, and I am not usually a hugger at all, but it felt amazing - it was genuine, and everyone was just able to be themselves.

I'm still trying to digest it, tbh, but it really compounded for me how vital women-only spaces are, be they little events like ours, or massively vital services like refuges.

It really bothers me that a way of surviving terrible events is deemed to make a person less trustworthy and as a consequence, more easily dismissed.

Yes being given "a diagnosis" is often not helpful to women going through court etc. I also think it's easy for us to blame ourselves because of what other people (including professionals) have told us. I was in an abusive relationship for a while but I felt I was just as bad because I was drinking too much and self harming. I was too ashamed to get help because I felt people would say if only I behaved better this wouldn't happen to me.

My house is often a shit tip and it feels like a barometer of how well I am coping. But actually, in order to cope, I don’t do housework. So my messy house is about coping, not not coping, if that makes sense

Thank you for posting this, Fortunate - I needed to hear it. I made a concious decision when my kids were tiny and I was drowning with full time work & home stuff that I would prioritise my mental health over a tidy house. Now my kids are older I keep framing the house chaos as having ‘lost the plot’ but really its the outward manifestation of making a kinder, more protective choice for my own wellbeing and sanity. Now I have more energy and headspace, I can expend a little more of it towards bringing order to the house chaos, but I shouldn’t berate myself for it.

I’ve also finally got to the end of the thread. Many of you have shared painful experiences and traumas, but the thing that really stands out for me is your courage, honesty and integrity. There have been some incredibly insightful posts here which have made me look at some of my own experiences and behaviours with fresh eyes. Thank you.

I am time poor for a couple of days but will be back - also this subject matter, for me, needs to taken gently and in steps. I hope the thread keeps going as new people feel able to contribute and others add more as they see fit ...

I have suffered with so many of these things - anorexia, bulimia, cutting, hair pulling, nail biting. At one point in my teens, I broke my own wrist with a hammer. I experienced sexual abuse in childhood so I’ve always attributed directly to that but some interesting points here.

One of the things which stayed with me though was the deliberate strategy of ‘breaking’ them mentally.

I have a lot of knowledge in this area - yes it's horrific - women are having a normal response to horrendous harm from male violence and are then frequently labelled "as the problem". These women are not insane - the often unnamed male abusers are - that's what they don't want to come out.

So much abuse and exploitation of women is normalized that even well-meaning and kindhearted men don’t recognize it unless it is spelled out very clearly indeed.

Finally read the whole thread. So many heartbreaking stories and what strikes me is their similarity. I can add my own roll call: anorexia, bulimia, binge eating, depression, anxiety, OCD, pushing myself through unbearable pain for six months to 'successfully' breastfeed. What struck me reading the thread is how talking about these things is still pretty taboo. If we talked about them wed realise how common they were and gain strength from that. It's divide and conquer. We are encouraged to think we are crazy individuals rather than that society is sick.

A particular bugbear of mine at the moment is the kind of pop psychology meme that women often share on SM. The other night a friend shared 'I will make you happy, but first I will make you strong. Love from Life.' which gave me the total rage. Tell that to someone who suffered childhood abuse or a child in Syria today. Suffering does not make you strong. Quite the reverse. Women are being taught that they should suck it up because that's what will make them into a better person. The idea that forgiveness is the answer to all life's woes is another rage inducer. Not sure if the people who lap up these kind of things have just had very easy lives or if they're trying to make sense of their own suffering.

I get stressed out about the forgiveness panacea...

I decided a few years ago it was fine to not forgive people for things that were unforgivable or when they didn’t deserve forgiveness. There is some kind of assumption that if you don’t forgive all the time that means you are bitter, resentful or hateful and this, especially for women, is meant to be a terrible thing.

So much stuff all the time about forgiveness setting you free, forgiveness has only ever been a captor to me. Telling myself it’s ok to not forgive is what has helped me.

I agree re the forgiveness crap - and let's put it behind us - it enrages me.
Judith Herman's wisdom has helped me on mnay occasions:

As the survivor vents her rage in safety, and helpless fury gradually changes into a more powerful and satisfying form of anger: righteous indignation. This transformation [frees the survivor] from the prison of the revenge... it offers a way to regain a sense of power without becoming a criminal herself. Giving up the fantasy of revenge does not mean giving up the quest for justice; on the contrary it begins the process of joining with others to hold the perpetrator accountable for his crimes.’

The opposite of the revenge fantasy is the fantasy of forgiveness, which is also an attempt at empowerment. ‘The survivor imagines she can transcend her rage and erase the impact of the trauma through a willed, defiant act of love. But it is not possible to exorcise the trauma, either through hatred or love. Like revenge, the fantasy of forgiveness often becomes a cruel torture, because it remains out of reach for most ordinary human beings. Folk wisdom recognises that to forgive is divine. And even divine forgiveness, in most religious systems, is not unconditional.

‘True forgiveness cannot be granted until the perpetrator has sought and earned it through confession, repentance, and restitution. Genuine contrition in a perpetrator is a rare miracle. Fortunately the survivor does not need to wait for it. Her healing depends on the discovery of restorative love in her own life... once the survivor has mourned the traumatic event... she may even feel sorrow and compassion for [ the perpetrator]... but this is not the same as forgiveness’.

For me, unless the perpetrator makes some genuine attempt at restitution for the harm caused (never seen one who does other than empty words), then there's no basis for forgiveness.

And forgiving without the perpetrator owning responsibility just enables more abuse. I hand that forgiveness to the divine - and learn to live with the harm caused in community. But I never forget who caused the harm.