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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Taking it out on your body - exploring possible roots

191 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 14/06/2018 11:49

This post emerges from a conversation started on another thread about the possible links between various conditions involving hurting one’s body, that I have called collectively “taking it out on your body”.

I thought a useful backdrop to this discussion is this:

The essence of radical feminism is the highlighting of the subjugation and marginalisation of women, by frequently consigning them to roles defined by men. This can mirror enslavement. This socialisation of women starts very early - I would contend in utero. It can certainly start early in the family and is fostered at societal and cultural levels and now is very heavily fuelled by social media.

These remarks are taken from Sheila Jeffreys at the recent Inconvenient Women WNTT event:

It is on the basis of sex that women are oppressed and on that basis that women rights are founded. It is in international law that sex is the basis of the granting of women’s rights.
..

The idea of gender arises from the oppression of women and cannot exist without it. Gender comprises behaviour and appearance norms required of men and women. Femininity is one half of gender and is the enforced behaviour of the oppressed, that is women. It includes humiliating clothing norms such as high heels, decoration, body exposure, body covering as well as the restriction of body movement, for example not taking up much space and so on.

It is based on the notion that women’s brains are somehow different from those of men, in ways that make them suited to such behaviour, make them rightfully subordinate and suited for doing the housework

The sparking comment on the other thread was this one:

user1499173618 Thu 14-Jun-18 08:43:48
BowlofBabelFish - the common thread between anorexia, bulimia, self-harm, trichotillomania, nail biting, gender dysphori (and, perhaps,tattooing, piercing) etc is deep-seated failure of recognition and denial of emotions. Human emotions are very real things but the gaslighting by society at large of human need and emotion causes immense confusion that results in people turning on themselves when they are not equipped to deal with the onslaught from the world at large.

To which I responded:

Emotional and psychological abuse targeting women, at family and societal level and now pervasive on SM, denies, discounts and coerces women away from their rightful autonomy and freedom of thought and being. This abuse can be somaticised by many women into blaming themselves, as the only tolerable, psychological alternative at an early age. This can lead to various manifestations of self harm and/ or taking it out on one's body. That is not women's fault but the environment they were raised in, where abuse is normalised and they are scapegoated.

From that point it was decided to start a separate thread.

OP posts:
WomanLifeIsGoodish · 14/06/2018 17:11

I’m shaking reading this. You are all wonderful, inspirational women and thank you for sharing your stories.

I had a narc mother (her selfishness is breathtaking) and an overbearing father who policed every single word I said. Being bawled out of the room aged 7 for using the word ‘bellyache’ which was crass apparently. Another time all hell broke loose because I said “fart”. I ended up not speaking and even now (mid 40s) I run through every comment I make to him.

I have a complex issue with food and use starve / purge to maintain a slim figure. I haven’t purged for months though so doing really well right now. I never let my BMI get above a certain number and this control is a release for me.

I don’t want to bring this thread round to the current debacle because that’s not what this is about, but the policing of the language triggered in me some god awful feelings. It made me feel vulnerable and anxious.

I end up shutting down emotions and as a result I am a ‘grey’ person. Very friendly, quite popular but no-one really, really knows me as I control myself too much. I don’t ever get drunk because being out of control is too scary and the Fear the next day messes with me for days.

Respect and solidarity to you all.

user1499173618 · 14/06/2018 17:23

WomanLifeIsGoodish - thank you for sharing your story Flowers

Uyulala · 14/06/2018 18:02

Dermatillomania is particularly bad atm. I like Winter as I can hide my skin

Bowlofbabelfish · 14/06/2018 18:58

Heartbreaking thread.

I do believe that an awful lot of mental illness is a rational response to situations people find themselves in. I mentioned RD Laing on the previous thread and while I don’t agree with all his ideas rather a lot of his ideas about family dynamics has struck a cord with me. When user talked about emotion processing being blocked by the family it really rang a lot of bells.

I’m not going to give details from my life - I feel a bit exposed at the mo with all the stuff going on regarding the thing we must not mention, but I will say that good psychotherapy had a profound effect on me and I would recommend it.

Flowers to you all.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 14/06/2018 19:04

I’d like to thank everyone who has shared their stories. The parts about family dynamics and not being allowed to show certain emotions really resonated. Also, the relationship with pain. I’m also not good at seeking help when I’m in pain or discomfort. There are a few issues with my body which I’m trying to sort out myself. OH keeps telling me to go to the doctor but I don’t feel it warrants it.
I’ve also noticed that I find it hard to be sympathetic to other people’s pain - I make the right noises but inwardly I’m thinking ‘don’t make such a fuss’. It’s awful. I think it’s because I hold all my pain in and find it hard when other people don’t. Sad

user1499173618 · 14/06/2018 19:06

I was very nearly completely broken by the experiences I went through in my early to mid 30s. I cannot deny that they have had major repercussions on my life but I did find a way to process what happened to me and I do believe that if you can face the pain (“the only way out is through”), though certainly not all in one go, you can get yourself to a far better place and, hopefully, help you children navigate the murky waters of life far better than your own parents did. Thar’s my goal, anyway.

Dillydallyontheway · 14/06/2018 19:10

I'm also autistic with an abusive mother so can relate to most of this. However, for me my biggest problem is binge eating to excess. I'm overweight and hate my body so this just makes me miserable but can't seem to stop

QuentinSummers · 14/06/2018 19:19
Sad Finding this hard to read. Struggled with self harm as a teenager, I don't do that any more but I bury all my feelings down deep. I feel it's down to me to fix everything and I don't know how to say what I want. I find emotions hard to express. I now suffer chronic depression, currently having therapy but so far although I can recognise what's happening there is not much change. I was bought up to think that I was strange and unusual. Any problems people have with me are my fault. And I should be able to rationalise my way out of any emotion. It's hugely impacted me. Sad
Writersblock2 · 14/06/2018 19:19

no-one really, really knows me as I control myself too much.

This. Precisely this. It’s like having two lives. Only sometimes the lines blur and then you wonder which one is really you.

Offred · 14/06/2018 19:32

The thing with pain and seeking medical attention.... very interesting...

It takes me weeks to make a doctor’s appointment. I will not go unless made to even when it’s quite serious. The NSPCC wrote to the GP to tell them I had overdosed 3 months prior, that’s the only reason they know. It took me three weeks of not being able to see in one eye before someone made me make an appointment with the GP (eventually dx with MS).

Offred · 14/06/2018 19:36

The reasons for that are that both my parents are (or were) GPs and both are well known in my town. Some of it is feeling like I want to be alone when I’m vulnerable, a lot of it is really negative experiences with the NHS.

TufVoyaging · 14/06/2018 19:39

Various over the years; smoking, drinking, not taking medication because "I should be able to do without it", still overeating and skin picking.

SummerKelly · 14/06/2018 19:39

I should be able to rationalise my way out of any emotion. It's hugely impacted me.

No you can't do this easily, it's different parts of your brain, it takes months or years of rewiring neural pathways. Google the triune theory of the brain. You can recognise though that the emotion might be something to do with your past and not your present and that an emotion doesn't have to lead to a particular consequence. There are very valid reasons you feel the way you do. I still feel the urge to self harm occasionally, but I know where that comes from and there's no way I'm letting my abusive past affect my present. Though I have to say I am already quite a long way down the road of recovery, that might not have been so easy in the past.

Offred · 14/06/2018 19:57

I feel it's down to me to fix everything and I don't know how to say what I want.

Yy Quentin Sad

FortunateCookie · 14/06/2018 20:08

My therapist always asked me what I needed. I became so embarrassed that I didn’t know that made something up Sad

mancheeze · 14/06/2018 20:44

I think so much of femininity is celebrating denial of the self.

IMHO, it's the very heart of femininity.

I was raised like every other girl, forced into a rigid stereotype for 30 yrs.

It was only after my divorce that I decided to cut men completely out of my life and to never care again about them. I cut ties with many people as well because I knew if I didn't, I'd never break free of the vicious imposition of femininity.

I became Self-ish.

How many times have we heard as girls to not be self-ish?

It's GOOD to be self-ish. It means you live each day for yourself and nobody else. It means you CHOOSE who you are, what you want. Each day, when I wake, the DAY IS MINE.

There's this special time for me, around twilight, where I ponder over the day and write in my journal (I've kept journals my whole life). I take this special time to reflect on the day, maybe plan something for the next, make a goal.

Many people might balk at being a spinster like me, thinking it's lonely and so forth but I'm telling you, for every moment I might yearn for a partner there many more moments where I'm contented. I answer to NO ONE but me.

I think my experience is just one of the ways women de-program themselves out of femininity and re-program themselves to be wholly human. You have to find some way out of the pain of being brought up in a patriarchal shit hole, a way to become human again and not an object.

There's not a man reading this that will have ANY conception of this struggle that all females face growing up in a patriarchy.

'When females are born they are doomed' (Hilla Kerner, testifying before Canadian Senate over Bill C-16)

mancheeze · 14/06/2018 20:49

One more thing that resonated with me:

I feel a bit exposed at the mo with all the stuff going on regarding the thing we must not mention

So do I. This is why I won't mention anything too personal.

It's a shame that women can't be online together and speak openly but it just goes to show how badly female only spaces are needed and why women are fighting to protect the few we do have.

Men will use any tool at their disposal to hurt women, online or offline.

Offred · 14/06/2018 21:19

I don’t care what anyone might do with whatever I say on here TBH.

Part of helping myself has been pushing myself to be honest about my actual life and experiences... I often struggle to really feel like my life is real, like the things that have happened really did happen and like I exist.

I think that’s why ‘enjoy your erasure’ was so frightening. My whole entire life has been one long battle against erasure. In my current life I basically don’t exist.

I walk to school, I walk home, I care for DD and do all the stuff that goes with having a very unwell child who isn’t in school, I fight constantly with services that are meant to support her but won’t because of cuts, I try to set aside an hour each day of alone time for each of the other three kids, I stay up way later than I can cope with caring for DD and then I sleep a couple of hours and am woken by the neighbour’s kids screaming (ASD meltdowns) at 6 am...

Sometimes I can go three days without leaving the house because when the kids are with their dad I am so exhausted I just sleep...

Many of the days I am wobbly walking and it takes an age and a lot of effort to walk anywhere, many days I have to drink 6/7 cups of coffee just to stay awake.

My DTD asked me the other day ‘what is your favourite thing to do when we are with dadda?’ and I could not think of a single thing. It is like I don’t actually exist as a person...

And that’s why I come on here. I have no friends to see, no life to have... I’ve just become a nothing person really.

I got invited to a birthday party a couple of weeks ago and I couldn’t face it. I was too afraid of being outside the house.

user1499173618 · 14/06/2018 21:21

Oh Offred Sad

Offred · 14/06/2018 21:22

(And this is my life being better than it has been for the last two years TBH, DD is getting better)

Offred · 14/06/2018 21:25

But none of that is me. It’s my circumstances. I know I am a person with a lot to offer. I know I am not a bad person. I know I am a strong and resilient person. An intelligent and caring person. I can’t tell you how important to me having the psych say ‘nothing wrong with you, it’s just your life is shit’ was!

qumquat · 14/06/2018 21:34

YY to all of this. I don't have time to read the full thread now but like many others I have had so many of these conditions. The pattern of women turning anger onthrmselves while men express it outwardly. For me a big turning point was realising I was absolutely fucking livid 90% of the time. About both personal and societal issues. I do think discovering this board and feminism in general has made a massive difference to my mental health as I now know I'm not going mad.

(And don't get me started on people saying my PND was my hormones when I was struggling to bf a baby who caused me agony feeding for 18 hours a day during which I was unable to even reach for drink!)

The world is fucking awful and the injustice is intolerable a lot of the time. I think maybe because women are socialised to be more empathetic we possibly feel these injustices more. Certainly anecdotally my brother and dp are not overly burdened with empathy and are.much the happier for it!

I think the culture of positive thinking and affirmations also has a lot to answer for. Anger is bad for us and must be 'let go'. Thank god I don't believe that any more!

QuentinSummers · 14/06/2018 21:35

I often struggle to really feel like my life is real, like the things that have happened really did happen and like I exist.
Big hugs for you
You post amazing stuff on here so you must be awesome in real life. Sorry things are so sucky Flowers

qumquat · 14/06/2018 21:35

Sorry Offred I hadn't read your posts when I posted Flowers

Offred · 14/06/2018 21:54

Ah thanks for the flowers, it is what it is really. I can’t really do anymore than I am doing to change it and I think it’s important to talk about what things are really like TBH.

This thread has been good for that.