Why are the public still not engaged with the gender debate?

[MillyTheKid]

Why do you think people beyond the TRA and feminist bubble are not talking about gender issues? It's regularly been in the papers, on television and is always on social media and yet it seems that the average person in the street is still not engaged with the topic.

Pastabest Interestingly, this was the response when I mentioned MN FWR board as one of the only places open discussion had been possible to a few friends at the weekend.

People don't realise that you don't need genital surgery for a GRC and that most trans people don't get the surgery.

Men don't care because it doesn't affect them.

Most people are thinking about old transsexuals and presuming they've had their winkle removed so they are "harmless"-what's the fuss. Or drag queens who are part of our culture and for whom many have a soft spot

Women are conditioned to be nice and not offend and many will choose to say nothing or worse acquiesce

IME IRL people think it's so obvious dangerous, unfair or out there they think it's not really happening/going to happen so can be ignored for now.

THIS!
Because to most people, the idea of men just saying" I'm a woman/girl" and getting access to segregated spaces/prisons/refuges/sport/Guides/jobs/scholarships/awards etc is so manifestly wrong that they can't believe it will be allowed to happen. Whatever your political views, you have to at least HOPE that those in charge are reasonably sensible!
Many people I've come across think its just noisy lobbying from the professionally offended mob, like Owen Jones. A quick introduction to some of the better know advocates and the Sages leaflet soon changes their mind.

sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

IRL people think it's so obvious dangerous, unfair or out there they think it's not really happening/going to happen so can be ignored for now.

Yep. And when you get it through to people that it's happening now, they literally pale before your eyes.

Many people I've come across think its just noisy lobbying from the professionally offended mob, like Owen Jones.

I thought it was faddish student politics for the longest time.

Psychstudent2013 what if I wasn't "assigned" a sex at birth? How do you propose I fill in that survey?

I follow the board and it scares me. After yesterday I have no idea how to put my opinion across without risking the ban hammer.

I think it might be, my husband mentioned him and his friends discussing Ian/Lian Huntley at work. He's a builder so not really an academic role.

I think some stuff he's just been oblivious to but it's not exactly widely reported

After weeks of reading (to be certain of my own position) I talked to my husband about it.

He was wonderfully matter-of-fact about it despite having a very close transwoman friend. He was so incensed about the intimidation around women’s meeting aspect, he’s vowed to make himself available as a doorman, should a gender critical meeting happen locally.

My partner doesn't get too excited about it because he feels it's so bat shit crazy that it can't possibly be taken seriously and will all blow over... I have told him what is already happening.

I suspect that the vast majority of people have far more pressing concerns of their own.

Most people live and let live. I think the issues in sport or safe spaces aren't focused on. A lot of people have sympathy with gender dysmorphia that can cause cripppling depression. As a tolerant society you might not agree with everyone's decisions but can understand it's not your life like with religion or politics or moral issues you may strongly disagree with. I think there is sympathy because a lot of trans are persecuted against if you look at the number of those that have to turn to prostitution in for example Thailand, Turkey and parts of the US to name a few.

I agree. It is unpleasant.

But it brings the clicks in. And so it’s in newspaper interests to print trans articles with plenty of photos.

When men realise it means the end of urinals they will start taking an interest, problem being it will probably be too late.

Perhaps it's because most people think as it doesn't affect them it's none of their business. Which is absolutely my view too.

But Jonbb what about the people it does affect who don't have a voice? Prisons is a big one- the women there have a far higher than statistically normal history of abuse and are pretty much the definition of vulnerable. Who listens to them?

My MIL (Guardian reader, very pro gay rights ) was in the “old school transsexuals” bracket. She was saying essentially “ well I don’t mind how people want to live their lives “ ( of course, reasonable) until DH pointed out that this means male people with male sex organs being able to enter changing rooms, loos, refuges etc. Then her face was 😮
Most people I know either think that self id etc will never happen because it is so ridiculous, or they think all trans people have had their penis and testicles removed, and are only interested sexually in men. Essentially they assume that they are hyper feminine gay men.

Prunemerealgood and sixty2018 make good points.

The tone on the GC threads and from a core of GC regular posters is intensely hostile and prejudiced, in my experience.

Outside of mn, and I think within wider mn but beyond the GC bubble, people are curious, interested, a bit baffled at times, and generally disposed to learn more about trans experiences and lives.

The wider population are unaware of the radical activism on either side, which I think is probably ok. There are unpleasant extremes on both, and neither's views are things I want to be hearing about, because they are both appalling.

The closing of ranks when well known GC posters have abhorrent posts deleted has been eye opening. Personal attacks on posters speaking out against hostility and prejudice to trans people are just awful to watch unfolding and seem inevitable and relentless.

The reaction to MNs laudable attempt to keep the peace says it all really.

Spartacus my arse!

IRL people think it's so obvious dangerous, unfair or out there they think it's not really happening/going to happen so can be ignored for now.

100% this.

I posted on another thread about talking to my DBs about the topic during a rare but lovely gathering of the clan last week.

I outlined the changes since the days of the old school transsexuals, and they were horrified. They are devoted husbands and fathers and immediately grasped the main issues.

I was impressed that DB1, who isn't into sexual politics at all but is very involved with sport, was already incensed about the effects on women's sports and could name some of the male medal winners.

I think that the people you are trying to attract read some of the things that are posted in thread and realise that a lot of it is just offensive. All the reasonable points you are making are then lost as people dismiss you due to the people who make you look like hateful people just an idea

Unless you are made aware of what is happening and then delve in and have a look on-line this will all just be passing you by.

The insidious way that things are changing e.g. sex is now gender, parents not being made aware when a trans child is in a member of a girl guide group sharing with girls etc is a real issue. 'Small' things like the announcement by Cancer Research re 'everyone with a cervix' will generally not be noticed by women generally unless they are already aware of what is going on.

I also perceive that when there is a phone in, like LBC today, the presenter (in this case Shelagh Fogarty) didn't seem to have grasped the issue nor understood it from a womans (XY) point of view.