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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I am S p a r t a c u s

999 replies

PermissionToSpeakSir · 13/06/2018 18:53

I am a woman.

I was a girl.

I am an adult human female.

Something a man can never be.

I am a woman.

People refer to me has her and she.

Sometimes said with deep contempt and misogyny.

I am a woman.

Something a male will never be.

I have a vagina and uterus.

I menstruate and have given birth.

I am a mother.

Something a male will never be.

I have been insulted, assaulted, belittled, dismissed, held back, intimidated, stereotyped, terrorised, mocked, shamed, humiliated because I am a woman.

Something a male can never be.

I feel insulted, appropriated, offended, anxious, tense, depressed, hurt and under siege, when a male claims to be a woman or anyone says a male can be female.

It is not civil or respectful to treat me this way.

I am a woman.

I am Spartacus.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
WhatTheWatersShowedMe · 14/06/2018 08:30

PS if you are a Radfem in the Brighton & Hove area, we have a group. DM me if you want to join.

AngryAttackKittens · 14/06/2018 08:39

As a child I once refused to curtsy to a member of the royal family. Why would I kneel to some randoms on the internet?

It would be great if we stopped having to do these threads because yet another attempt at appeasing people who won't accept anything other than kneeling was going pear-shaped.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 14/06/2018 08:41

I'm Spartacus. So is everyone in real life.

No one believes this rubbish that humans can change sex. To promote it as something that cannot be questioned is a silly move.

AngryAttackKittens · 14/06/2018 08:44

Every time one of these threads happens more new people pop out of the woodwork to state that they don't believe people can change sex. At what point does the penny drop that maybe this is because most people don't think people can change sex rather than that being a belief held only by a tiny coven of evil witches?

SolidarityGdansk · 14/06/2018 09:08

MN - your core members are women.

It is often said that women make the majority of the spending decisions in a family.

We are who your advertisers are interested in.

Don’t let us down.

Macareaux · 14/06/2018 09:10

I am Spartacus

It is not possible to change sex.

A man cannot become a woman.

A woman is an adult human female

A female is a member of the sex class that produces ova.

No amount of hormones, declarations, surgery, wishful thinking or even laws can cause a man to become a woman.

It is not 'transphobic' to know or say any of the above.

Dragoncake · 14/06/2018 09:13

Being female comes with all sorts of negative biological baggage. Identifying into womanhood is appropriative.

I celebrate feminine men. But feminine does not mean female. Human beings cannot change sex. We are male or female for our whole lives.

enoughisenoughtoday · 14/06/2018 09:24

I am Spartacus.
Adult human female - a woman - a biological reality.

Women are an oppressed class, because of our biology.

We are (still) standing together.

NoCisAllWoman · 14/06/2018 09:30

I just want to get my thanks out here to all the fab, sensible, truth-speaking posters - too many to name ( @Datun, @AngryAttackKittens for example) and de-lurkers like @JoyTheUnicorn . Thank you for your bravery, you have enlightened and helped to give voice to so many of us Flowers. I'm de-lurking to say

I am Spartacus.

I support people's right to be what they want to be, dress how they like etc. but not if it erodes women's rights (xx chromosomes). Biology matters. Truth matters.

Why is @MNHQ prioritising the rights of the trans minority over the rights of women? It's blindingly obvious that women are also still a minority in terms of rights, power and equality, no? Or did I miss the memo?!

LangCleg · 14/06/2018 09:30

I'm Spartacus. So is everyone in real life.

This is so true. I genuinely don't know one single person IRL who believes that TWAW. Not one.

Amalfimamma · 14/06/2018 09:33

If you don't like it you can suck your own penis

Because we women don't have penises.

I am S p a r t a c u s
PenguindreamsofDraco · 14/06/2018 09:43

Yep Spartacus (Spartaca?) here. Words have meanings. Biology matters. And no-one actually genuinely believes TWAW.

R0wantrees · 14/06/2018 09:47

Article in The Times today by David Aaronvitch (chairman of Index on Censorship, the free speech advocacy organisation)
(extracts)
"And thus, in easy, treacherous steps dissent is deemed accessory to murder. It is an utterly pernicious logic. But thus too, in a dazzling paradox, the accusation of “hate speech” proves itself to be sometimes a form of hate speech. It is being deployed to intimidate and to shut people up"

concludes:
"This freedom boat, I’ve realised over the past half decade, is the same boat for all of us, even if we sit in different parts. Sink it, and we’re all drowned. There’s no “but” after “open debate”.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/assaults-on-free-speech-are-led-by-the-left-l2r8t9t9p

Current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3277408-David-Aaronovitch-comment-in-Times

iismum · 14/06/2018 09:49

I am Spartacus. Biology matters.

EeebyMum · 14/06/2018 10:05

I am Spartacus.

I am female. I was born female. I am not cisfemale.

BeefyCakes · 14/06/2018 10:24

I am Spartacus.

Gender is a social construct.

A person can not change their chromosomes.

Biology matters.

Do not call me cis.

I am Spartacus.

NonHypotheticalLurkingParent · 14/06/2018 10:32

On the 31-08-2016 I wrote the following:

"I am parent who's not an activist, and isn't even posting, but whose NON-ADULT child is transitioning.

I have found Mumsnet invaluable over the last few years. My daughter came as transgender to us in 2012. It was a very isolating confusing time. It came out of the blue after quite a turbulent time in the family.

At the time (as I do now) I had the opinion that you fundamentally can not change your sex. There's nothing wrong with men presenting as a woman or a woman as a man. It was an opinion I kept to myself amongst my liberal friends. When I told one liberal friend about my daughter, her reaction was blind acceptance and she actually said 'How cool'. It was not cool.

A few months after my daughter came out to us www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/1464511-My-14-Old-Daughter-Says-She-Wants-to-be-a-Boy?pg=1this thread popped up. I was not alone. There were woman who were being sensible, asking questions, having valid concerns about the same things I was.

This line on the tread struck home, I would say that if you opt for counselling, be very very careful in the counsellor that you select. If they don't know what they're doing in this delicate area, they could do more harm than good.

My daughter was very fragile, she was getting a lot of her information from the internet and and any dissension from us would result in us being being called transphobic bigots, given suicide rates, etc. She was being fed rhetoric and was gobbling it up. At the time the TA movement was gaining a louder voice, I could see the future and I didn't like it. My view was that any counsellor we saw would validate her feelings of dysphoria and not question them. She had very valid reasons to want to change herself and the situation, though it's a very common teenage feeling, to want to be someone else, but this was not explored. I was so glad that thread was not high-jacked by TAs and was allowed to stay. Though towards the end a private space was created where mums in a similar position could discuss it in private without being attacked.

As gender dysphoria is not classified as a mental health condition (a whole other issue - why is the only dysphoria not classed as a mental health issue?) we had to first be referred to the local children's services, who recommended the local LGBT youth club, however, I knew some of the people there were also transgender and knew they feeding her the same rhetoric. Thankfully, I had the posters on Mumsnet who were saying the things I was thinking. After a disastrous CAMHS appointment where they spouted the wonky science of hormonal washes in the womb and lady/man brains and given forums such as Mermaids to explore. Ultimately, we were referred to the Tavistock clinic. Now some may think this is child abuse, but I delayed our referral as I didn't trust the clinicians not to indoctrinate her further.

All the information out there at the time spun the line that if you feel like a boy you are a boy, no questions, full stop. If you disagree with your child they will kill themselves. Through Mumsnet I discovered more and more people who thought like me:

4thwavenow.com/

www.transgendertrend.com/

gendercriticaldad.blogspot.co.uk/

There's a lot I've missed out, but now, 4 years later, she's happier in herself, accepts herself and can see that by wanting to be a boy/man she's hurting women. Without the voices on Mumsnet I'm not sure I could have stayed strong in my conviction. So please MNHQ do not silence the debate because it may hurt some hypothetical person. You could argue that the majority of posts on here could be perceived as offensive to someone somewhere.

The I am Spartacus Thread - moved me to tears. There were woman standing up for me and my family.

I am NonHypotheticalLurkingParent and I am Spartacus."

It's now nearly 2 years later and this is still relevant. In the last two years I've lurked and seen words, definitions and biology twisted and manipulated to fit new narratives. It's been like listening to stoned teenagers at a party think they've discovered the secrets of the universe for the first time.

I am NonHypotheticalLurkingParent and I am STILL Spartacus.

RaininSummer · 14/06/2018 10:33

I am still Spartacus.
This is a war on women.
A man can never be a woman
A woman can never be a man
I am not transphobic and believe that people can live their lives however they like so long as it harms none but I will not deny reality or lose the language to talk about women and their lives. Male bodies do not belong in female spaces.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 14/06/2018 10:33

Fuck yes.

I'm fucking Spartacus.

And I'm very proud to be here with you all. MN would be nothing without us.

EmpressOfSpartacus · 14/06/2018 10:33

Here's an open access link to the David Aaronovitch article. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/assaults-on-free-speech-are-led-by-the-left-l2r8t9t9p?shareToken=aad4967ac57303768812d72e12adf901

TacoLover · 14/06/2018 10:38

These spartacus threads are starting to make me cringe a bit. Don't get me wrong I'm GC but how many spartacus threads have we had now? I've lost count. Just seems a bit repetitive to have the same thread over and over.

Pythagonal · 14/06/2018 10:45

I'm still Spartacus...

Strigiformes · 14/06/2018 10:45

Thanks for sharing that Empress. It was an interesting read.

PermissionToSpeakSir · 14/06/2018 10:46

taco I am finding it a bit tedious that certain posters pop up trying to advise/police women about what to say.

It strikes me as a bit controlling/shaming/silencing.

OP posts:
Maryz · 14/06/2018 10:48

It's all very well to say they are cringy. But most of them are deleted, simply because hundreds of women come on them and say "men are not women". At least by restarting them we can all see that we are not alone, and that many other women also want to be allowed to speak the truth.

It may be repetitive, but not half as repetitive as the never-ending instructions to be "nice" and "inclusive", and the continual attempts to force us all to tell lies Angry