Transgenderism, transracialsm and transableism

[Poppyred85]

This is something I was mulling over while on another thread so rather than derail that one I thought I’d start a new one.
If someone born male can identify as a woman, based on an internal feeling, why is the same not true for identifying as a different race or identifying as disabled? For me, I don’t see how one can be completely accepted to be true without also accepting that it is also possible to identify as a different race or identify as having a disability. Rachel Dolezal was vilified for saying/acting as though she was black when in fact she wasn’t. Why is it any different for men or women who identify as the opposite sex?

There's a transabled TIM here: . Sorry it's a Jerry Springer link but I became aware of this individual elsewhere.

There's a woman here who deliberately blinded herself:

And of course there's six year old pervert and deadbeat dad, little Stefonknee Wolscht.

I keep telling you that sex is not bimorphic. Some people are easy to assign male or female, but with some people we get it wrong and it needs to be corrected. It is not about "identifying as a woman": it is simply correcting an error.

Transableism is often brought up amongst people with disabilities and is a constant stress for the community in this culture of cuts. Ten percent of disability hate crime is prosecuted. Disabled people are struggling to obtain benefits and this group of people is a direct colonisation competition threat to both income and services for people with disabilities.

I understand from another thread that people who have had strokes are being held up I speech therapy because TIMs are allocated NHS services for acting lessons.

Gibber
Transgender is not the same as intersex.

I am assuming you mean Dimorphic? And I think you will find it is. In rare cases that it isn't, this person is identified as intersex, but the 'norm' for humans is dimorphic. Primary indicators such as (but not limited to) internal and external genitals and secondary factors such as muscle mass, breasts etc.

Your feelings do not indicate or inform your sex.

I read a blog about ethnicity recently (sorry can't remember what it was called). It was the blog of an academic exploring philosophy, identity and ethnicity. She offered a good analysis of why Dolezal's appropriation of Black identity was unethical.

She then went on to assert that it was completely different from gender transition. Her argument here was less rigorous and seemed to depend on an idea of gender as a stable internal reality or something like that. It wasn't clear to me how this was different to Dolezal's internal reality (mistaken though that may have been).

I've yet to see a really good argument that the two things are different. On the other hand, I don't think it's generally helpful to compare ethnicity with gender identity so maybe I shouldn't be looking for it.

As for disability: it feels utterly bizarre to me. I have a disability. It has an enormous impact on my life. I see that other people sometimes seem to resent the adjustments we need (and have fought for) just to manage slightly better - because no adjustment actually overcomes our 'handicap'.

People who park in blue badge spaces without a badge. People who use accessible toilets at work to get changed for post-work drinks. An utter refusal to acknowledge the reality of disability combined with resentment that we 'get' something they don't. I may be wrong, but I imagine trans-disabled people are coming from a similar place of resentment.

Rachel Dolezal was vilified for saying/acting as though she was black when in fact she wasn’t. Why is it any different for men or women who identify as the opposite sex?

I hope someone will be able to answer this, because I can't understand why it's viewed differently.

Gibberty while sex is bimorphic, I sort of understand how your argument can be made for people with DSDs, or even gender dysphoria, but could you explain how it applies to everyone else who is under the ever-widening trans umbrella. Ludicrously, transgender even appears to apply to me, because I consider myself agender.

Perhaps ironically, Dolezal might have gone through life undetected if she hadn't been so keen to take up leadership positions in Black organisations. On the privilege model, she would have grown up with white privilege that gave her advantages over Black colleagues and friends. I'm sure this point was made at the time.

It was Rachel Dolezal that peak transed me. I realised there was no difference and as a person of colour myself, no I was not about to accept 'feeling black' as a legitimate thing! She may have a lot in common and share values with the African American community, I understand her husband is black and she had black adopted siblings. So I can accept she's very much a part of the culture and community. But to pretend/believe that one is actually, physically black is silly and unnecessary. Like with some transwomen trying to say they are actually, biologically female because they say they are.

Being black and being female are not feelings they are biological realities. Everything we associate with being black and female outside of biology is called stereotypes and they are harmful and limiting and offensive. Now I see the Trans movement as reinforcing stereotypes and restrictive gender roles I can't unsee it! Genuinely dysphoric people need mental health help not reinforcement.

And transablism I just cannot even comprehend pandering to such an unhealthy delusion. I'm still not sure I believe it's a real thing rather than a few oddballs looking for attention. Maybe I'm wrong.

I keep telling you that sex is not bimorphic. Some people are easy to assign male or female, but with some people we get it wrong and it needs to be corrected. It is not about "identifying as a woman": it is simply correcting an error.

There are males. And there are females. If there are any other sexes, do let Biology know what the extra gametes are.

People with ambiguous genitalia are generally suffering from intersex or DSD conditions. They are not transgender.

There should be no difference really, but the way ot's justified is by replacing* 'sex' (something you can't logically identify out of, same as race or disability status) with 'gender' (something that is entirely made up).

*or deliberately obfuscating the two

('it's not 'ot's' )

Transablism is an extreme manifestation of body dysmorphic disorder. It’s a mental illness and extremely hard to treat.

Gibbs, if you're coming up with all this total horse shit to support/endorse a TIM partner, your desperation is almost tragic. None of what you say is factual. Some of what you say is downright ludicrous to posters on a site called Mumsnet.

Transablism is an extreme manifestation of body dysmorphic disorder. It’s a mental illness and extremely hard to treat.

That's interesting, Bowlofbabelfish. I would like to know more because maybe I was too harsh earlier. Do you happen to know of anything easily accessible that I could read? But only if it's quick and easy for you to recommend something - I don't expect you to do my research for me!

The error being, @GibbertyFlibbert, that a woman inhabits an entirely male body? In the form of a female soul? Or perhaps has a definitively female brain, if you believe such a thing exists?

CardsforKittens
This article is about people with body integrity identity disorder, who identify as disabled. It compares the condition to gender dysphoria.
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/body-integrity-identity-disorder-the-condition-where-sufferers-want-to-be-disabled-a6680306.html

Humans are a sexually dimorphic species except for those with intersex conditions. Being transgender is not an intersex condition and people with intersex disorders have repeatedly asked not to have their experiences co-opted by the transgender lobby.
Unless of course you have some evidence to back up your assertion (and remember before posting that many of us will have read papers on this or will be used to critically appraising scientific papers on a daily basis).

I’ll tell you exactly why, although no one will admit it.

The people who condone one and not the others do so because they don’t believe women are actually oppressed like POC and disabled people are. That’s the only reason - the rest is all bullshit.

Thank you, OldCrone. Interesting that the woman in that article seems to have had her suffering eased, but somewhat disturbing that the HCP who blinded her had only been working with her a very short time.

I don’t think you were harsh cards - it’s a very valid point and a valid question to ask. Not sure I know of any good resources but searching for body dysmorphic disorders in Pubmed will start you off.

There are lots of body dysmorphia type disorders - some are more familiar than others. Anorexia for example is one. Gender dysphoria is another and body dysmorphic disorder as well. We dont treat any other dysmorphic disorder the way we do gender dysphoria (ie with affirmative treatment.) we don’t tell anorexics that yes, they’re a bit chubby and should cut down on food - thatd be grossly negligent.

It’s only gender dysphoria that we treat by affirming a persons delusional (and I use that word in a medical context, not as a term of abuse) world view. Why do we do this? I honestly dont know. The idea of deliberately blinding yourself is horrendous.

And here my own personal opinion is this: people with genuine gender dysphoria are a minority of the transgender population. They have an illness. They should as adults be able to access medical treatment. Children absolutely should NOT be treated affirmatively - around 80% of kids end up being OK with their gender identity, so it’s again really unethical to treat all children who have issues during puberty with awful drugs like puberty blockers, which have serious and lifelong effects.

The rest of the trans population are a mix of cross dressers, autogynephiles etc and I think they are a very different kettle of fish. They are the ones attempting to push through self ID for example. They are the vocal lobby pushing to reduce the rights of women and children.

And as for transracialism - I honestly dont know too much about that. I’ve only seen a couple of cases in the media - dolzeal for example. I do agree with you that the different ways society reacts is interesting as well - why is one greeted with derision but the other has a lobby group that’s powerful and well funded?

People who wrongly park in blue badge spaces are utter bastards :)

We’ve tried that poppy - gib I’m afraid is undaunted in the face of peer reviewed evidence (see recent science teacher thread...)

I keep telling you that sex is not bimorphic.

SPaG aside, thanks for the lordly pronouncement. We know you think babies come from behind the gooseberry bush because you just spent 40 pages on another thread plonking down irrelevant studies in a failed attempt to prove it.

I'm mostly interested in how this newfangled gender identity of Extra Special Non-Dimorphic Patriarchal Male People is exactly the same as the old gender identity of Boring Old Fashioned Patriarchal Male People - that is to say, all about telling women what they are allowed to think.

What's the difference? That elusive third gamete? Or the superhero cape?

Gibberty's correct. Sex isn't bimorphic:

Bimorphic can refer to:

Bimorphism, a type of mapping in mathematics
Bimorph, a piezoelectric cantilever with two active layers

And we keep saying that the verb 'to assign' when discussing biological sex is only properly used of intersex people. The rest of us, the vast, vast majority of us have our sex observed at birth. It's piss easy, done it many times myself. We get it 'wrong' these days in the developed world very infrequently and it doesn't have to be corrected. In fact, intersex groups are generally very much against corrective surgery for cosmetic reasons. They prefer to take the view that society should be more accepting of a wider range of 'normal' as regards genitalia. Absolutely, totally agree with that. Like accepting that there is a wide range of 'normal' behaviours for females & males.

But we are a sexually dimorphic species.