How accurately do humans identify biological sex?

[Acorninspring]

I often see the claim that people are very good at identifying biological sex, regardless of what gender someone is presenting as. I agree with this. However, I did wonder if we actually had any empirical evidence to back it up? Any research studies etc? It would also be interesting, if for example, men and women were significantly different in their ability to identify biological sex.

Re misgendering people. Being polite and using bronouns and wanting to be nice and not hurt feelings is partly what has got us into this absolute mess and is what helped lead to ‘transwomen ARE women’. I’m not doing it any more. I’m not lying.

I will refuse to use pronouns and use names to avoid being deleted for thoughtcrime but I refuse to call a man ‘she’ and I know I’m part of a growing number of women in this.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0069684

Here is one open access study for you, OP.

Do you think people should be able to misgender freely in the work place?

Oooh, look. A diversionary tactic.

bronouns

I love this word.

Back to animals, horses are good at distinguishing between males and females.

My male cat doesn't like men/males and we, myself and the children, suspect he was hurt by a man as a kitten

My sister has had her dog since he was a puppy and he is wary of males too. He trusts my sister's husband though.

I hate that people think their pets love them. Animals don't understand the human concept/construct of love.

A relative had a large boxer dog who was suspicious and hostile to adult male strangers- the owners would have to pat the man on the shoulder to show he was a friend. The dog was fine with women and kids, he just perceived males as potentially threatening. He'd never been mistreated either. So that ad is nonsense.

Oooh, look. A diversionary tactic.

Ok fair enough I'll leave that then as it isn't what the thread is about. But as MB was mentioned upthread, for balance, here is a more up to date photograph of how she looks now. Unmistakably female and no reason to misgender.

Monroe looks female in that particular head and shoulders photo as Monroe has had extensive facial surgery to try to look female. Monroe is exceptional as most transwomen don’t even pass in photos unless they are filtered and at an angle.

Like virtually all transwomen, in the flesh Monroe is still quite clearly male and especially when Monroe opens Monroe’s mouth and the male privilege and misogyny spouts forth.

That is a very photoshopped photo of MB.

I love how the final word is supposed to be whether we can identify sex in humans from still photographs. When, just about all of the interactions that matter are interactions in person.

All of the concerns about sex single spaces, changing rooms, prisons, sports, overnight accommodation, etc etc are about interactions in person.

Many blokes, so long as they're not completely at the Tommy Cooper end of the spectrum, can be dragged up to look convincingly like a woman in a still photo.

Yep. And some men - I am thinking of Thai 'ladyboys' can be stunningly attractive. They are still men, though.

A carefully posed picture is just that, a picture.

Pictures of other high-profile Trans people are convincing, but the actual reality is often less so. Human beings can't change sex.
The End

As Nauticant said above

I love how the final word is supposed to be whether we can identify sex in humans from still photographs. When, just about all of the interactions that matter are interactions in person

All of the concerns about sex single spaces, changing rooms, prisons, sports, overnight accommodation, etc etc are about interactions in person.

Also - I have never heard of a photo assaulting a woman.

I think Munroe Bergdorf is an extremely unpleasant individual who deserved to be sacked by L'Oréal. Like everyone else who comes on This Week talking bollocks she was deservedly trounced by Andrew Neil.

I don't think she looks or sounds particularly masculine in that video.

I said on another thread, and was ridiculed for it, that apart from one female to male trans man I don't know any trans people and am not aware of trans people when I am out and about. I live in a city and am regularly in London. I can't think of any time I have been in a loo, restaurant, theatre or shop and thought to myself - oh there is a trans person who doesn't pass. Either trans people are very small numbers and/or they, at least on a fleeting glance basis, do pass.

SMG just wants everyone to say mean things about Bergdorf's appearance so that SMG can moan on about transphobia. Again. Don't fall for it.

As a general point vis a vis cosmetic surgery, I don't find it makes either women or transwomen who have it look more female. I think it makes them look more like those sex robots than actual women. I think this about Hollywood actresses as much as I do about transwomen. It's a

... sorry, pressed post too soon.

It's a Barbie doll look, not a female look.

But why does the picture up thread look female?
If you took away the hair and the make up would they still look female? Woman is not a costume.

In the street and in photos, I often think trans people pass better as women when they adopt conservative clothing and short/medium length professional hair cuts. They can look more like an androgynous woman at first glance.

Trans people who have ffs and are models? I can usually tell. There's something in the eyes. Like there's less warmth. They've not spent years being socialised to soften their gaze to appear appeasing to other people. It's subtle but I see it.

Do you think people should be able to misgender freely in the work place?

I belive the ten year old in question was in a ‘wandering in and commenting on the telly’ situation rather than on the executive board of a FTSE100.

I love how the final word is supposed to be whether we can identify sex in humans from still photographs. When, just about all of the interactions that matter are interactions in person.

It's instagram/port culture isn't it?

Life has tipped over into nearly 100% 2D managed imagery for so many people they are forgetting the 3D reality in which we live.
Staging 2D images of everything,
photoshopping 2D images of everything,

sharing 2D images of everything,
viewing 2D images of everything.
masturbating over 2D images,
imitating 2D images.

It's this false 2D image world that some people are so steeped in, so attached to their devices - phones, tablets, laptops, they have forgotten that it doesn't have very much to do with reality which is knowable by at least 4 other senses.

So seeing Tara Hudson contorted, posed faking, pretending for a publicity shot is the 'real' but the shot of them built like a brick shit house, massive male entitlement and towering over their mum walking down the street is the 'unreal' one.

A static picture is interesting, because so much of what humans rely on is movement based.

I can tell if it’s DH walking towards me from a distance far, far before my eyesight can resolve his features or what he’s wearing - it’s the pattern that’s processed by the brain.

Ditto things like makeup contouring - I forget which ‘sleb it was (might have been a kardashian) but there was a clip of them posing for a photo with the contoured makeup on, and then of them chatting to the camera as well - what looks striking in static looks very peculiar when it’s moving.

When MB speaks, there is no doubt they are Male.

I’m interested in the viewpoint that a man aping the shell of a woman effectively is more woman than one who just says they are a woman. Neither are a woman - I thought it was rather distasteful to talk about how well someone passed, as it was upsetting to the individual.

Or does that only work one way? If a person passes fairly well it’s an argument that they’re a woman, and if they don’t the shut up you nasty feminists?

The biology, muscles and bones of women are different to men, women and men move differently. Padding or cosmetic surgery may help men fool other men, the motion of the walking body especially makes it hard to fool people. Either TIMs walk like a man or they do an exaggerated hip swing, neither are the walk of a woman.

No man can mimic the movement of a woman. A man may fool a porn soaked man, it doesn't work with women, we have sight, hearing, smell and a gut feeling.

Women are scared of men so are polite to their face.

Come to Manchester Lass.

There are many transwomen out and about on a Saturday and Sunday.

They are ostensibly men doing a parody of a woman. Mind you they don't at all threaten me in any way.

Munroe Bergdoff is not media savvy at all.

But we know Bergdoff is a transwoman Supermatch

This is the face of a woman, an adult human female.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou

Who interesting shared a husband with Germaine Greer.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Greer