Soul man

[blackteasplease]

Had this 1980s film been mentioned here re the trans debate?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Man_(film)

A white boy who takes tanning pills to make himself black and geta scholarship? I remembered it dimly but just looked it up and it seems really apt. He realises all the advantages he's had being white and that he can go back to being white and having that privilege at any time!

daim I didn't say transwomen would take the opportunity. I said some people. Focussing more on the possibility of men who aren't trans in any meaningful sense taking advantage of the big loophole being created. And some people are like that, which is why in general the law tries to.avoid.loopholes and tries to make any categories definable.

Yes bd67th, you're talking about the direct discrimination that both natal women and passing trans women experience. You're failing to remark upon the additional indirect discrimination and transphobia that a trans woman will experience. I'm not sure what your point was in retrospect, but it came across to me as a kind of "haha, serves you right" to trans women. Sorry if I've got that wrong.

You're ignoring the fact that humiliation is a really big motivation for transition for some AGP men, Rat.

daimbars
I realize that there has been an effort to make FWR the transgender page of MN but some women resist and will not comply.
There are thousands of films about the various and assorted ways white men cheat. They may not all be about transgenderism.

Not sure I buy that Prawn.

Only on Mumsnet would a trans person go to all the trouble of being transgender and everything it entails in order to satisfy some dark ulterior motive.

It happens far more often than it is talked about on MN.
Thousands of men with sexual fetishes have taken refuge in transgender identities. Why people like you keep asking why they would go to all the trouble when it is no trouble at all is fairly obvious by now. Zombie lies never die.

I can't think of any parallels whereby a lad identifies as something he isn't in order to win a prize or scholarship.

There was the guy who posed as a teen girl for several years to make money. Lots of men who pose as LEOs and fashion photographers to abuse women.
Men who pose online as lesbians on dating sites.
Those are just off the top of my head and since they do not include a prize or scholarship they will likely be dismissed.
The behavior shows up in the news fairly regularly.

I can't think of any parallels whereby a lad identifies as something he isn't in order to win a prize or scholarship.

Ilay Dyagilev made it all the way to the final of Miss Virtual Kazakhstan before confessing that he wasn't actually a woman.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-42961828

By that point he had already been crowned Miss Virtual Shymkent.

@ratpolypoly, I did remark on transphobia: When a transwomen is perceived as trans (aka "doesn't pass") and is hence treated badly, they experience transphobia.

@Wakame, the reason why the Newland case got so much press is because women committing sex crimes is so very rare.

@RatRolyPoly The thing is the act of "moving between the two" is so very stigmatised in our culture that any advantage you might retain you lose twice over in the moving.

Looking at Caitlyn Jenner, Lily Madigan, India Willoughby, et al, I'd beg to differ.

bd I'm saying that even when they DO pass they experience additional indirect negativity, such a sense of societal rejection of trans people for example, and that that is ON TOP OF the direct negativity they might experience for passing as female.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/

bd I'm not sure I'd trade any amount of success for the hard time those people get here and elsewhere. It would drive me to the brink of despair I think.

Another one on the BBC News only 3 hours ago:

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44416307

Maybe it's not as rare as you think.

That was a really interesting article WAK, thanks.

The Scientific American one that is.

I'm not sure it's relevant that some women sexually abuse others unless I'm missing something.

What does it mean the rugby player struggled with her gender? That she was thinking she might be a transman?

@wakame, nowhere in that Scientific American article does it give a ratio of female perpetrators to male ones. Nor does it indicate what proportion of female victims have a female perp. So it doesn't actually prove anything.

The BBC news piece: as I said, commonplace crime isn't newsworthy. Men raping women only makes the news if something else about the case is unusual.

You're ignoring the fact that humiliation is a really big motivation for transition for some AGP men

Yes. Which is why we have to put up with them endlessly reducing us to the sissy porn vision of women.

It doesn't matter whether you buy it or not, Rat. It's blatantly true.

When I first became aware of the sexual motives men have for transition I spent quite a lot of time online reading the words of TIM as they talked about all the things that turned them on. Once seen, never forgotten.

By the end of my journey of discovery I no longer wondered why 80% of TIM keep their dicks. They need them to wank themselves stupid over sissyfication porn and other fetishes.

"I'm not sure it's relevant that some women sexually abuse others unless I'm missing something."

You are - the Newland case was an example of someone pretending to be someone they are not in order to take advantage, which is the subject of the OP.

The other links are in reply to claims it's rarity makes it negligible.

"When I first became aware of the sexual motives men have for transition"

Ah yes - that's one of my favourite bits of TERF logic - at 3, you're a poor innocent confused child, same at 4, and 5, and 6 and so on and so on until the morning of your 18th birthday, at which point you magically become a filthy sex pervert!

"I no longer wondered why 80% of TIM keep their dicks."

There it is again - at 8 it's "Oh you poor child, you must keep your penis!" then at 18 it's "Yuk - he wants to keep his penis!" But you should do your research - 87% have either had or want vaginoplasty:

www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf

It doesn't matter whether you buy it or not, Rat. It's blatantly true.

So you say it's "blatantly true"; does that mean don't interning to defend it?

You said that humiliation is a really big motivation to transition for AGP men.

Where are you getting this notion that "AGP" men are humiliated by their kink? Even in your very own statement there is nothing to they're humiliated by it - you imply they revel in it!

I have some small experience of kinky cross dressing myself (it's not my bag personally) and honestly, as a kink, I'd call it mainstream.

I'm not ruling out that the odd RARE person would transition so as to indulge their own personal fetish, but you raised this in response to my saying the stigma and hardship on those transitioning would outweigh the benefits if it were undertaken solely to pursue an advantage. You said there was the added push of "AGP" men's own humiliation... I'm not seeing evidence of that humiliation. Quite the contrary.