Soul man

[blackteasplease]

Had this 1980s film been mentioned here re the trans debate?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Man_(film)

A white boy who takes tanning pills to make himself black and geta scholarship? I remembered it dimly but just looked it up and it seems really apt. He realises all the advantages he's had being white and that he can go back to being white and having that privilege at any time!

LARPers gonna LARP

What does LARP stand for?

Man uses rich daddy to buy new rules for weightlifting.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/03/21/new-zealand-man-gavin-laurel-hubbard-sweeps-womens-weightlifting-competition/

Gavin “Laurel” Hubbard, 39, was a one-time nationally ranked weightlifter in his twenties [2] but he failed to make his mark competing against other males. He remained active in the sport, funding various events and serving as the Executive Officer of OWNZ (Olympic Wrestling of New Zealand) until his position was eliminated last year. [3]

Hubbard responded to the loss of his authority by funding a new state-of-the-art weightlifting facility to host and sponsor the OWNZ competition itself. [4]

OWNZ then authorized the women’s competition that Hubbard won on Sunday March 19 at the Australasion Championships in Melbourne.

I think its a valid comparison.

Transwomen benefit from being socialised as male from birth with all the attendant privileges that brings.
Transwomen who don't have surgery - the vast majority from what I've read - can opt to return to their male identity if they choose.

and there are many many benefits that being a transwoman can bring to a man.

In fact, I can;t think of a prominets TIM who hasn't significantly gained thanks to his trans status.

Lily Madigan - Labour Women's Officer - formerly an unknown student now a widely recognised public figure.
Ditto Paris Lees, Shon Fae et al -all enjoy media fame

Caitlyn Jenner - arguably escaped from media vilification re: driving incident to being feted as woman of the year a few months later.

LARP

Live action role play

and there are many many benefits that being a transwoman can bring to a man.

I think there's greater stigma and potential harm (emotional or perhaps even physical) than benefit, don't you?

I think some (but not all) of us can agree the link with being trans is at best very, very tenuous.

For the record, I don't think it's the least bit tenuous. The similarities are blindingly obvious.

Live action role play

That’s what I came up with on Google! I’m not seeing the relevance here. Am I just having a stupid moment (probably!)?

Well Lang it is rather the case that if you think trans people are like the man in the film then you will find there to be similarities. And if you don't, you won't.

The question is rather what about the man in the film do you find similar to some trans people; which trans people and why?

The movie can be interpreted allegorically - a story, play, poem, picture, or other work in which the characters and events represent particular qualities or ideas that relate to morals, religion, or politics:

If you are phobia hunting remember that humans have used allegorical tales for millennia to understand life. It's an imperfect art.

The movie's motivation was overt, whereas we must all believe motivation for trans is never that. We don't, and the outcome is the same whether the person involved fully understands their own motivation or not.

Sorry to have gone off for ages. I just kept thinking of this film whenever anyone talked about sports and sports scholarships with males competing in the women's or girls' category and wondered if people here also saw a comparison.

Thanks to those who have filled in the gaps. I don't for a moment think ALL transwomen are doing any one single thing but that this could be an area where self ID could be abused.

The song was good

Is it an allegory though? If you're interpreting it an an allegory I'm afraid you're going to have to tell me what it's an allegory for as I'm just not seeing it. Perhaps it would help if I had seen the film; have you?

When you say "the movie's motivation was overt", do you mean to protagonist's motivation? And that his motivation was overt but if you compare it to trans people they might have the same motivation but perhaps be unaware that that is what motivates them?

I don't know, I think if a the connection is that one is knowingly motivated by something and the other you believe may be motivated by the same thing but unknowingly... well that's a connection that one would only make if they shared your belief. Probably not an actual objective connection between the two. Interesting though it may be to consider.

You do have to watch out for imposters. I wonder if they will make film about the Gayle Newland case in which a lesbian was convicted of three counts of sexual assault on a woman by penetration while pretending to be a man:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/29/gayle-newland-found-guilty-at-retrial-of-tricking-female-friend-into-sex

I think the known and unknown motivations behind pursuing an identity different to your sex is is the fundamental point people are discussing.

Which motivations are more moral than others? Is the political motivation of making identity a moral imperative regardless of any immoral motivations (and no aspect of human endeavor is conducted entirely morally) ethical or unethical?

Doesn't sound like a brilliant film tho ugh so why would they?

pseudoscientology.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/vintage-scientology-e-meter-for-sale-on-ebay/

Wakama - here's another one.

Doesn't that rather miss the point I was making earlier though Picasso that the idea of someone being motivated by advantage is really quite debatable, full stop? And honestly, not in the least bit realistic.

So it doesn't matter whether or not it would be moral or whether or not someone is aware it's their motivation or not, because the bottom line is it would be a really silly plan. Any possible advantage would come at a really, really high cost. So high that it would be completely pointless pursuing it unless you're really dim - and being really dim they would be almost certain to be found out!

But we already see men pretending to be trans to gain an advantage.

Christopher Hambrook, Ian Huntley, we could name numerous ones.

Are these transwomen, or men claiming to be transwomen to gain an advantage?

I guess you can question the motives of everyone.

I identify as a lesbian. I believe my motivation of identifying this way is due to my attraction to other woman.

You could argue my motivation would be to join this walking group:

https://londonhikingdykes.weebly.com

As Rat points out, it would be a really silly plan to identify as someone you are not in order to gain some kind of advantage.

Daimbars if you were a predatory male, you probably wouldn't consider it 'silly' to identify as a lesbian to join than walking group. You'd probably consider it a damn good idea.

And it's disingenous to pretend these types of people don't exist - prisons are full of them

If a predatory male tried to join that walking group he would be laughed out of town.

Before anyone says 'oh but you would be accused of being transphobic if you don't allow a female identifying man to come'

Open you eyes, look into the real world. Predatory men are easy to sniff out, especially by a tough group of lesbian hikers.

And it's disingenous to pretend these types of people don't exist - prisons are full of them

Those people are criminals - deception is often a part of breaking the law when you're aiming to get away with it.