Just watched that on catch-up. Heather was absolutely dreadful (sorry Heather) and let's be honest, anyone watching that is not going to be swayed in the slightest by that. I am not a Jane Fae fan, but she sadly wiped the floor with her although she lost it a little towards the end. Also, that guy who asked the first question about people being prosecuted for writing Mr instead of Ms didn't help either.
To win people over, the argument needs to be made so much more articulately. The young black woman from the audience for instance was very articulate when she said that actually this is not great for trans people because it is a life-changing decision and they need support. Heather briefly threw in at the end that they would not be given support, but that was never a clear point. She could have stated that trans people are vulnerable, need emotional and medical support and that the new plans would remove the state's obligation to provide them.
Secondly, she made quite a major mistake. She says the change in the law will mean people now ARE the sex they claim to be. The existing law already allows birth certificates to be changed. There is nothing new in the reforms that changes that- it already exists. The only thing that changes is the need for a doctor to sign it off and the 2 year waiting period. By confusing the issue with the birth certificates, people who know about the current law will just be able to discredit her.
Thirdly, Jane is actually right that there is no automatic right to go into a female prison even if you have a GRC and there won't be once the law is changed. Heather and anyone else who goes on media needs to be absolutely 100% bang-on with what they are saying.
I was shouted down on another thread, but I think the debate needs to be reframed because you most certainly will not persuade anyone by having Heather on The Big Questions (sorry Heather). You can fight the self-ID thing by reframing it as concern that trans people are able to make such a life-changing decision without medical support. But you can also point out that you are simply seeking to protect, in limited circumstances, women's same sex spaces. Ignore the debate about whether someone is born in the wrong body. It honestly is a red herring in this debate. The concern is not a trans person's right to self-identify more easily, it is that some spaces need to be female only. That, I think the general public would be on board with. This stuff, not so much.
I wonder if this was very last minute for Heather, whether she stood in for someone else. She refused to look at Jane Fae too, which made her come across as hostile. I wonder if they had an altercation earlier on or something.
Karen Ingala-Smith is good at these sorts of things actually. Or RRC. This is RRC's video about reframing the debate: