Primary school scraps boys and girls-only races from its sports day because they exclude transgender children

[caperberries]

Is there a thread about this yet?

Link from the Daily Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5794361/Primary-school-Inverness-scraps-boys-girls-races.html

Maybe it will be good for the boys to be beaten by some girls and for there to be a level playing-field. How many trans pupils were there at this particular school?

It's not a level playing field though

And girls aren't some kind of "weapon" to use against boys and to prove a point

The view that it's somehow embarrassing to be beaten by a girl is part of the problem

The trans issue grinds my gears, I’ll admit. I’m just waiting for the day a boy who wants to be ‘a girl’ starts diving or playing football competitively against my DD. Bitter pill to swallow.

It's just about bloody time that girls were given the opportunity to play sports and to get good at sports and get a proper chance to do it. Rather than have yet another sodding gender roll of being "teacher" forced on them in the form of somehow making children inclusive or bringing them.down a peg or two by beating them. That's your job as parents to do that.

We may have tried mixed sex Giles, but we haven't tried a targeted solution to the primary problem with it; culture. It's easy to say it didn't work and that the alternative must be better, but there's quite a lot to suggest the alternative would be much worse. I don't want that for any of our daughters.

I can see why an individual mum would want what they perceived to be best for their child, of course I do, but of course we look at the effects on girls as a group too.

Disturbing it's true what you say about age. September born kids do far better at sport than summer Born's on account of a whole schoolhood of being a year older and stronger, and the confidence that comes with that predisposition for success. Both of mine are suumer born; I'll be getting them into extra-curricular sport as soon as possible where the age groupings are usually January to December, just to try and even things out!

And bow often are these campaigns successful or last long term?

How many are properly implemented?

Pe lessons r often run by sixth formers at neighbouring secondary schools etc

Many activities run by people volunteering .

They're pretty good in my experience, I definitely think it can make a huge difference.

For the last few years there's been a big campaign to get people back into sports they may previously have enjoyed at school or pre-children; sports clubs like mine have really picked up the baton and it's making a difference. Every season we have new players coming into our competitive teams off the back of our "back to..." sessions.

If you tell a sports club that coaching this way or that way will increase the number of female members, either in childhood or adulthood, they're usually game. Members = subscription fees, = a higher club profile, = more successes, = all sorts of things sports love.

If girl-centred coaching techniques encourage girls to keep up a sport, the sports clubs will undoubtedly oblige.

Oh, except maybe football; I've heard they're a bit of a "boys' club", although that seems to be changing a bit these days. They may need an incentive, or a stick. Such as publishing "equality stats" of girls and boys at different levels, much like with the gender pay gap.

That might do their reputation some damage if they aren't centring girls. And what's bad for the reputation is bad for the bank balance.

DD (teenager) is very fit, fast and does two sports competitively to a high level, including one traditionally played by boys. In timed races, she can beat most of the boys/all the girls. However, in her PE class they play mixed team games. Her male teammates don't pass to the girls at all. She's left running up and down, in position to be useful, and they go out of their way to pass to another boy. She gets really infuriated. She lives and breathes sport. It's still not enough for the boys.

But how will that work in big standard pe/lunch clubs etc where it's run by volunteers or local pe students etc?

Plus it won't work of parents arent behind it and clearky the whole problem is due to parents not instilling these values onto their children in the first place

However, in her PE class they play mixed team games. Her male teammates don't pass to the girls at all.

See, this is mad to me! In what way are her teachers teaching this team sport if they aren't teaching kids that if you don't play with your team you're actually really shit!

In the real world even the most skilful player would be dropped like a hot potato if they weren't able to make the right pass to the right player - unless perhaps they're a striker then you can stick them way up front out of everybody's way.

Maybe team sports coaching is just really bad in schools? I don't understand it, there's no excuse for it from the adults.

How does separating work in smaller schools, less densely populated areas though? Whatever your experience of mixed teams it's better to be the only girl on a mixed team than the only person on the girls team.

See, this is mad to me! In what way are her teachersteachingthis team sport if they aren't teaching kids that if you don't play with yourteamyou're actually really shit!

I'm prepared to he flamed for this as I will probably phrase it wrong and put my foot in my mouth.

However honestly imo it's just more proof of how the expectations of boys are too low. It's seen as expected to do this. There's the use of girls as some kinda point proving exercise. Part of the "boys will be boys that's what they do they are competative "" etc

And girls are resigned to it.

Maybe team sports coaching is just really bad in schools? I don't understand it, there's no excuse for it from the adults

Dh was an assistant football coach for under 11 i think...can't remember and cant be arsed to check

Didnt matter what he or the other coach did, some boys would not pass to children they didnt feel were good enough...and this was actively encouraged by the fathers

And children of 5 'know' that football is for boys...and 'good at football' boys as well

I hate football

Other sports are available but you couldnt fucking tell that at my childrens school

We never had separated sports until secondary school. The differences at that age are minimal to nil. In fact I was regularly beating boys until I was about 13 then our hormonal development put them too far ahead. Non issue this.

I think it's an issue if it's not been done that way before and the kids are being lied to and having an agenda forced on them.

I don't think there have to be any resulting problems from competing together for it to be a really bad idea.

All depends on what they are being told really. If they are being told that feelings matter more than fairness and safety and ensuring girls get a good chance to do sports then that's a huge issue isn't it?

I also don’t understand why segregation of the sexes for sport at school level is viewed negatively when women and men compete separately in all sports as adults.

Because men and women are very different physically and boys and girls are not.

There's a lot of blurring issues here IMO.

I do support mixed sports when kids are young. There is no reason to separate them at primary age IMO - certainly not infants anyway. They are as physically able as each other.

Why would primary schools have single sex races? There’s no difference in physical strength, speed, or stamina at that age.

The boys in my dds Y3 have several inches on the girls. They are both bigger and stronger overall.

Ours is one of those 'everything in teams' sports day where all possible competition has been outlawed but if they were racing individually the boys would take the first five to ten places without breaking a sweat.

In Y3?? Well that is a difference that is either a random anomaly or a product of the "gender PE gap" where boys simply do more sport than girls; because that does not reflect the expected biological differences between the sexes at that age (i.e. there is next to no difference).

Yes - just been looking at the data and you are right - the difference should be about 0.5cms.

But honestly in dd’s class the tallest three boys are around 145 cms (I know this because I have had a conversation with one of the parents about being the right height for waterslides in waterparks). They tower over dd and she's over the 75 centile.

So I am happy to be corrected and now even more amazed by the giant boy children...

As you were

The anecdotal evidence in this thread seems to indicate that it is the adults who make the difference in how the children play. That seems to me to be where the change needs to start. They don't need professional coaches but at the very least the schools could make an effort to keep the pedagogy power out of the hands of misogynists.

howitworks.png

I am so fed up with all this nonsense already starting in schools. Before long there will be a boy saying he's a girl (and yes, this is not technically about that, but the reason they gave was just that, that it "excludes" trans children) in pretty much every sport at every age, and girls will no longer win. It is as infuriating as it is shocking that people just go with it.

On a related note, the idea of "inclusion" / "exclusion" is sickening.