Examples of transgender males in male roles

[Kettlepotblack]

Are there any examples of females that have transitioned into males holding male posts, accessing male spaces or entering male sports contexts etc as men?

I'm struggling to find examples.

Is this happening on the same scale the other way around?

Point, not pointy.

You want to screw up the Equality Act, and have us banned from toilets and changing rooms

Again, please point me to posts where MNs have written that transpeople should not be able to try on clothing in changing rooms.

(I haven't!)

I didn't think you had, AssassinatedBeauty! I think it shows how baseless the poster's argument is.

Chromosomes are biology. Brains are biology. Feelings are not biology.

Interesting. Metaphysical. What are thoughts and feelings if not an emergent property of our physical bodies?

More rhetorical than anything else; I love a metaphysical musing.

Indeed rat ( and hope you dc has received) . I am less keen on metaphysical musings as they are hard but probably useful

Chromosomes are fixed (I think) and predictable in actions. brains and muscles can be changed within certain parameters, but still have high level of predictability in what we can observe and how those organs will therefore behave. Feelings are interpretation by brain if ? ?some chemical emission ? In response to certain triggers? Like brain and muscle we can control and change them and teach them ( my fried rarely needs drugs for depression now they know what they need to do , things that previously would have needed chemical help now don't) ( or falling in and out of love) but we are less good at this because ? So many elements are Involved? So we don't understand it as well?

And is that where the debate about how to treat children with gender issues comes in? Women like me ( who are not typical female) managed to control those emotions and get acceptance of my physical body and therefore think it's probably a healthy approach? People with real dysphoria despite help typically can't

TerfsUp
We are and we do.
Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true. It just makes it more obvious that it was deliberate.
I am female; don't you dare try to tell me what my experience of being female is.
I never have and never would. But don't you dare to tell me what my experience of being a trans woman is, either. I am sick to death of hatred that is being deliberately stirred up against people like me by TERFs and their religious / far right allies. (I presume it's OK to use TERF now, as you've included it in your username — just in case there was any doubt?)

Brains are biology
Good. Glad we got that sorted out.

Stonewall considers cross-dressers and transsexuals to be under the same umbrella. Glad we agree on this pointy.
I consider cis men, trans men, trans women and cis women to be under the same umbrella. It's called "human".

AssassinatedBeauty
I'm quite sure I haven't posted about wanting to ban transwomen from toilets or from changing rooms.
I'm sorry, I thought you had. But there are an awful lot of posts on MN that do say trans women (aka "TIMs" in TERFspeak) should be banned from toilets and changing rooms (aka "safe spaces" in TERFspeak) so I may have been confusing you with any of the other dozen or so people who post similar stuff.

Er no. Stop wilfully misunderstanding people. Many women think that trans identified males should not access female spaces including toilets and changing rooms. Not that they should be banned from using any toilets and changing rooms. Third spaces are the way to go.

It's really bizarre that you decided to make a specific accusation against a specific user like you knew what you were referring to. I'm not sure I really want to continue to respond to you, but whatever.

The point about stonewall is that they consider cross dressers to be trans. That's the point of their trans umbrella, so what they're campaigning for is equally for cross dressers as for transgender people.

@Damnthatonestakentryanother2: you ignored my original post so I will repeat it:

Show me posts where MNs have written that transpeople should urinate or defecate in the street rather than use a public toilet or go unclothed rather than buy clothing. Shouldn't be difficult, as you claim that it is a "recurring theme".

The point about stonewall is that they consider cross dressers to be trans. That's the point of their trans umbrella, so what they're campaigning for is equally for cross dressers as for transgender people

Yes. This is accurate.

@Damnthatonestakentryanother2. Again, show the posts that claim that You want to screw up the Equality Act, and have us banned from toilets and changing rooms.

TerfsUp
Again, show the posts that claim that You want to screw up the Equality Act, and have us banned from toilets and changing rooms
I really can't be bothered to waste my time copying evidence that you will simply ignore. You know they are there, and I am pretty certain that you are another of those who has posted them. Just think back -- have you ever used the term "safe space" or claimed that self ID will let men into them?
If so, you are misrepresenting the law. And if you are trying to get people who you think might be trans banned from them because you don't think they look female enough, then you are trying to cut back our rights under the 2010 Act.
Of course, if you are NOT trying to exclude people like me from gender-appropriate loos and changing rooms, then I am sorry for maligning you. I must have been confusing you with someone else.

Of course, if you are NOT trying to exclude people like me from gender-appropriate loos and changing rooms, then I am sorry for maligning you.

I think the issue is that loos are generally segregated by sex, not gender-identity.

@I really can't be bothered to waste my time copying evidence that you will simply ignore

Ah. The classic 'I can't provide the evidence' evasive technique. You can't provide the evidence because it isn't there.

I think the issue is that loos are generally segregated by sex, not gender-identity.

Loos should be segregated by sex and not by gender. That is the crux of the matter.

Yes a lot of people don't want male bodies in female areas, and they are basing that on sex because it is sex discrimination that they have faced. Male bodied people often treat women as objects as do many of the trans community unfortunately. And this differentiation based on sex is consistent with the equality act.

But if you feel that is limiting your ability to live life fully, that there is a shortage of suitable loos/changing areas etc then I would happily join your campaign to increase the available of suitable facilities. I would guess gender neutral spaces suitable for 1 person or a person with small children would make most sense given the relatively low numbers of transpeople, although they may well be used by anyone?

Is there a petition or something? Template letters to MPs?

There was a question about competitive sports. The Olympic committee guidelines at IOC state the following:

1. Those who transition from female to male are eligible to compete in the male category without restriction.

1. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions:

2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The
declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum
of four years.
2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first
competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on
a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12
months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in
women’s competition)
2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the
female category.
2.4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competition will be suspended for 12 months.

These guidelines removed the previous requirement to have gender reassignment surgery. Instead testosterone level below 10 nanomol per litre for one year at least as the qualification for competing in women's events.

WAKAME

Interesting list

However, Clinical Psychology is not a sex-segregated profession
Women are also allowed in the military in the US
And, luckily, woman are also allowed to write books, and practise the Law. And sometimes hold positions of power in National Organisations.

So I think you've missed the point

A more interesting question would be whether those people would have become quite so eminent if they'd remained women. In which case you list demonstrates another point admirably. Women who pass as men do as well as men do

Sorry, missed a page

Another list of people doing jobs

I'm sorry, I thought you had. But there are an awful lot of posts on MN that do say trans women (aka "TIMs" in TERFspeak) should be banned from toilets and changing rooms (aka "safe spaces" in TERFspeak) so I may have been confusing you with any of the other dozen or so people who post similar stuff

No, nobody asserts that transpeople should go to the toilet, take part in sports, get married, have childrem etc etc.

And contrary to what WAKAME seems to think (judging by the list of jobs transmen have she's listed), does anyone think that transpeople shouldn't have jobs.

shouldn't go to the toilet