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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Posie

999 replies

BabyItsAWildWorld · 30/05/2018 12:18

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

OP posts:
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6
RatRolyPoly · 31/05/2018 19:53

Hope things improve for you Bowl Wine

Terfulike · 31/05/2018 20:02

Ok I misinterpreted Im sorry Rat

SomeDyke · 31/05/2018 20:30

"The person would still be there albeit that they would look different. But their soul and their personality would surely be the same. I wonder if part of it is the significance we place on gender roles."
I don't believe in souls, but to me there is a whole shed-load of difference between a person who lives as a lesbian, and then that same person who may be behaving very similarly but now seeks to live as a straight man.

SupermatchGame · 31/05/2018 21:28

And misogynistic language. But many of these services (and you by your glaring omission)

Yes and misogynistic language, quite right. But that isn't stated as a protected characteristic in the same way as race/ racism and sexuality/ homophobia is though. Other than sex. But it should be I agree.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 21:29

Yes and misogynistic language, quite right. But that isn't stated as a protected characteristic in the same way as race/ racism and sexuality/ homophobia is though. Other than sex. But it should be I agree.

Think you'll find it would be in the workplace.

thebewilderness · 31/05/2018 21:32

Having kids does not mean that you don't have the right to be your authentic self.

Inigo Montoya called to say, that word authentic, does not mean what you think it means.

SupermatchGame · 31/05/2018 21:40

Do the parents pay for this support? Peak Or is it left up to the state to pick up the pieces.

Perhaps if the state didn't tolerate such transphobia and ensured that the world was not hostile to trans people then it would be far more accepted, normalised and destigmatised and there may not be such an impact on children. There is research that shows on the whole children of trans parents have positive outcomes. It's not that long agoa there used to be similar concerns expressed about gay parents.

With regards to supporting children through what could be a difficult process involving loss, why should the state pay for supporting families going through any difficulties? You say it as though people choose to have gender dysphoria. They don't. Transition is the only treatment with any evidence behind it, whatever you think of that evidence. There isn't any other. It's no different from people needing any medical treatment and the associated needs for family support.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 21:42

Perhaps if the state didn't tolerate such transphobia and ensured that the world was not hostile to trans people

How do you suggest they do that? You can't force people to believe it.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 21:43

Transition is the only treatment with any evidence behind it, whatever you think of that evidence.

There's evidence that many children would grow out of it.
.

thebewilderness · 31/05/2018 21:45

Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex, and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that only the true believer actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?

It has been done before. It never ended well for women, children, and the poor.

SupermatchGame · 31/05/2018 21:45

Think you'll find it would be in the workplace.

Casual misogyny sometimes isn't though is it. Making jokes about 'women not being good at driving' haha etc. Customers asking to 'speak to a man' because they don't take women as seriously etc. People wouldn't get banned from Twitter for that.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 21:48

Making jokes about 'women not being good at driving' haha etc. Customers asking to 'speak to a man' because they don't take women as seriously etc

You appear to conflate "people don't bother to take it to court for a variety of reasons:" with "definitely not a hostile work environment for women legally"

SupermatchGame · 31/05/2018 21:56

I was talking about treatment for adults there, not children. As in parents transitioning after they've had children doing so as part of medical treatment not selfishness.

It's not about mandating belief. Many people still believe homosexuality is wrong, says so in the bible even, but they're not allowed to say it out loud so much. They're prohibited from excluding gay people. Trans is protected as well but they are only just coming up to where gay people were with society about 30 years ago.

Also it's not about some sort of mind transfer into a different body. It's about the sense one has about the rightness of the sex of ones body. Whether that feels as though it fits with who you are as a person, and how you relate to people socially, or intimately.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 22:01

It is about mandating belief. They'll still know people don't believe it without them having to say anything, and people will be more hostile if their beliefs are compelled, not less.

SupermatchGame · 31/05/2018 22:04

You appear to conflate "people don't bother to take it to court for a variety of reasons:" with "definitely not a hostile work environment for women legally"

It was in relation to misogyny often flying under the radar because it isn't highlighted so specifically in legislation but racism and homophobia are. You wouldn't even hear casual jokes about race or sexuality in most workplaces. I don't really know what you mean by 'not a hostile work environment for women legally' - if an environment feels hostile then it is hostile. Harassment is that which is interpreted to be so by the victim isn't it.

SupermatchGame · 31/05/2018 22:06

There are a lot of things that people believe that they're not allowed to say in the workplace. Take all the muslim related comments alluded to earlier. A lot of people believe those - but you certainly wouldn't be able to say any of that where I work.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 22:09

Misogyny in the workplace and creating a hostile work environment for women is covered by the EA as harassment. That's what I meant by legally. The fact that women generally brush it off or don't feel able to challenge doesn't mean that misogyny in the workplace is legally acceptable.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 22:11

This is really pointless. You don't appear to grasp my point. Plus ça change.

SupermatchGame · 31/05/2018 22:17

I do grasp your point, I think I was making a slightly different point though.
Ooh fancy cedilla.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 22:19

You just have to programme in French as a language as well if you have an iPhone.

PeakPants · 31/05/2018 22:35

I don't believe in souls, but to me there is a whole shed-load of difference between a person who lives as a lesbian, and then that same person who may be behaving very similarly but now seeks to live as a straight man.

The question is why that is though. I thought the GC stance is that there is no such thing as 'living as a woman/man', you just are who you are and people should be free to express themselves how they want but it doesn't change the biological sex. I get that there is a difference, but if we examine it closer, it is probably due to gender stereotypes. Once we accept that, we can see that transitioning needn't mean a loss for the family. However, it does need careful management and support and I myself admit to likening it to some form of loss.

SomeDyke · 31/05/2018 23:06

"The question is why that is though. " I don't think it is that hard -- as a lesbian, I have relationships with other females who accept they are females. Someone who transitions doesn't.

LangCleg · 31/05/2018 23:19

It has been done before. It never ended well for women, children, and the poor.

YY.

Beholdtheflorist · 31/05/2018 23:24

This reply has been deleted

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Terfulike · 31/05/2018 23:27

florist your sick