Posie

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

"I would say transmen who see themselves as men shouldn't carry babies.... "

Why not Posie? And let's start from the point where the person wanting to carry a pregnancy has taken medical advice on board and is not taking any medication deemed harmful to a foetus.

Because I think it's shit to have babies if you cannot accept your own sex. I feel the same way about men, like Jenner, who transition.

And they have many different positions on pronouns, sharing spaces and what rights they are willing to concede to post-op and medically transitioning people.

There is no 'different position' on pronouns. The Equality and Human Rights Committee have made it clear that misgendering is harassment.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination#what

There is harassment and not harassment. That is it.

And we have always been at war with Eurasia.

Even Jenner accepts that their children call them dad.

Jenner said so on a channel 4 programme.

I remember when Jenner won the Olympic gold medal - for a men's event.

"Because I think it's shit to have babies if you cannot accept your own sex. I feel the same way about men, like Jenner, who transition."

Wow.

Do you include in that people who transition after having children?

It's continuous misgendering though Super. There is a difference. If I called someone he and didn't know they were transgender, calling it once is not an offence.

If after knowing they were transgender and I continued to not call them by their preferred gender then that is harassment.

I think Jenner would agree with Parker on that one.

No need for the Wow!

There is no need for 'PC gorn mad' on this Super

SupermatchGame I suggest you think about what I actually said.

Regardless of what the law says, individuals are free to hold positions that disagree on the issue. For crying out loud, we've just witnessed history being made in Ireland where the law said one thing and millions of people had a different position on the issue and now the law is being changed!

And you have been told countless times before that this legislation does not cover private people acting in a private capacity. I can call any random transwoman "he" as often as I like in conversation with other people in private and it's perfectly legal for me to do so.

*@supermatchgame

I have just read the stuff in the link. I think that all applies to harassment in the workplace or BY people in a workplace (down the pub and barstaff keep calling a trans sir if they want to be called miss)?

I might be wrong? Otherwise there would be thousands of people every day being legislated against. What do you think?

I and many others are in trouble if I'm wrong...

Hi - I've been lurking all day, hope you don't mind me dropping in. Just wanted to say - not sure whether this has been covered - but according to the GRA the trans status of the parent doesn't have an affect on (in this case) 'his' status as the mother of the child. That's for the child's right to know where she comes from - so if they were adopted or whatever, the 'life story' would say that he's the mother, and on the birth cert, the mother will be registered as the mother - regardless of assigned gender. Not sure whether that's helpful really. I looked it up over that trans rights repeal the 8th argument - Just been on my mind!

Round we go again.

A major objection that is used again and again on this board is that transitioning of young people is bad because it may affect their fertility in ways they are not mature enough to fully comprehend and give consent to.

But according to above post, and others in a similar vein, if a trans person wants to make use of their fertility then that is taken to mean they are ridiculous and that their experience of dysphoria is bullshit.

Don't see how you put that together

1. Don't trans kids because a) they may desist, b) it is harmful/damaging to health c) it is living a lie because you can't change sex.

1. Telling the world you will top yourself unless everyone pretends you've changed sex, then go on to use your sexed organs to reproduce = you have been dicking the world around making them pretend along with your lies.

Two entirely different things.

Thanks RevisionCards, useful info.

PosieParker

So essentially what you are saying is in your opinion, and if the world danced to your tune, people would not have reproductive autonomy?
Well trans people at least?

So as well as suggesting sterilisation for trans men, you dislike people like trans women who also chose to have a family before coming out or transitioning..

So you would prefer a system of reproductive gatekeeping?

And this is a feminist board, on a forum to support parents? Wow.

Do you include in that people who transition after having children?

Evidently. If dysphoria is such a load of bullshit though, why do people put themselves through it? What actual advantage do they gain from saying they feel so disgusted by their own bodies that they need to alter them fundamentally? Why do MH professionals not agree that it is bullshit?

Another thing I am struggling with is that people have said in the past that they support someone to present however they like, but that changing sex is not possible. I agree, it is not possible to change biological sex. But are people who are saying it is wrong to remove your breasts and take testosterone really saying that people are free to be whoever they want to be? Can't you just say that trans men are biologically female but that they are totally free to use male names, male pronouns and to modify their bodies and live the lives they wish? Is that not the case?

Thank you RevisionCards

That's a sensible approach (and covers all legal matters too).

Can't you just say that trans men are biologically female but that they are totally free to use male names, male pronouns and to modify their bodies and live the lives they wish? Is that not the case?

I'm more than happy with that. As long as everyone else isn't obliged to play along. And therein lies the problem.

For god's sake @Lutece that's your view and summation. Please stop putting words into people's mouths. It's most offensive.

Re this: Can't you just say that trans men are biologically female but that they are totally free to use male names, male pronouns and to modify their bodies and live the lives they wish? Is that not the case?

Children should not be obliged to play along with it though. It's against safeguarding rules.

Surely under self id you make a declaration of your intention to live the rest of your life as a man. Would becoming pregnant and giving birth, as something only a woman can do, be evidence of fraud? Or do we accept the concept of pregnant men as TRAs demand and game over. It is essentially a philosophical point, all this talk of eugenics is hyperbole.

Elendon yes there is a difference, a mistake is a mistake especially if there is an ambiguous presentation. Deliberate is harassment, I agree.

There is no need for 'PC gorn mad' on this Super

Oh come on! Do you remember when people used to say that about accusations of homophobia and racism? PC gorn mad it is. Or have I missed your point?

SupermatchGame I suggest you think about what I actually said.

Well thank you for your suggestion Charlie, I do quite often find myself thinking about what you have said.

Yes of course OnThisHill. But Twitter isn't private capacity. Neither is this forum. Or the media. Or any public building. They are services. We can all say what we like in the privacy of our own homes or amongst friends. Just like there are people who use racist and homophobic language, no doubt all the time in a private capacity.

In an ideal world I think people would love their kids enough to not want to royally fuck them up and transition.

I know too many families completely fucked up by Daddy/husband becoming Mummy.... I can't see why I'd think it was okay the other way around. I too think this about parents who have affairs and wreck their families....

Once you become a parent some choices are off limits, I don't think that should be controversial.

I've said repeatedly that I don't think forced sterilisation is something I support for women, certainly with the detransition rates.

Children should not be obliged to play along with it though. It's against safeguarding rules.

Depends the extent they are asked to play along though. If they are told that [mum] was born a woman and gave birth to you, but now prefers to be called Robbie and has a beard, I can't see that being a big problem. If they are told outright lies, that is a different matter.

But Posie's position is that anyone who rejects being female (which you can't really reject because it is an unalterable state) should not be permitted to give birth to children. I can't get my head around how gender dysphoria should render someone ineligible for parenthood. Maybe someone will ask that question of her at the Cornwall meeting.

In an ideal world I think people would love their kids enough to not want to royally fuck them up and transition.

That's unfair though and not all kids of trans people are fucked up at all. Having kids does not mean that you don't have the right to be your authentic self. For people with gender dysphoria, it also isn't really a choice- it is the only way they feel they can live.

I would say there are worse things that can fuck a kid up to be honest. Living with parents in a violent and abusive relationship is one of them. So is living with unhappy parents or being neglected by your parents. Being trans does not automatically make you a shit parent.