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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Posie

999 replies

BabyItsAWildWorld · 30/05/2018 12:18

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

OP posts:
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6
AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 31/05/2018 10:42

This thread is mental.

Elendon · 31/05/2018 10:42

What did the person carry? SuperDandy A bun?

If you mean the female who was pregnant then why don't you say so?

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 10:42

Do you find all* surrogacy cruel and selfish, involving as it does the planned and deliberate separation of baby from mother, or do you feel that way only for the particular cases of surrogacy you mention?

Commercial surrogacy is a feminist problem. You won't find many radical feminists who agree with it. It's not about homophobia, it's about exploitation of women's bodies, often poor and marginalised women. It's roughly the same argument as that against prostitution.

PeakPants · 31/05/2018 10:43

Thanks for the clarification about the Cornwall meeting. So many different groups now.

Elendon · 31/05/2018 10:44

This thread is mental.

Grin
BeyondSceptical · 31/05/2018 10:45

We've done racism, religion, trans, lesbians, gay parents, abortion and colonialism, and now it's on to surrogacy. I think there's only porn and prostitution left to have covered everything.

Seems a lot to lay at posies feet.

BeyondSceptical · 31/05/2018 10:46

Better summed up by assigned Grin

Elendon · 31/05/2018 10:46

Commercial surrogacy is modern day colonialism in action.

Elendon · 31/05/2018 10:48

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 10:48

We've done racism, religion, trans, lesbians, gay parents, abortion and colonialism, and now it's on to surrogacy. I think there's only porn and prostitution left to have covered everything.

Hey! I mentioned prostitution in my reply to SuperDandy! Grin

BeyondSceptical · 31/05/2018 10:48

I don't think there has been any suggestion of this being a different touring "group" - it's some local women who don't want to let down attendees who have already made arrangements

BeyondSceptical · 31/05/2018 10:48

Commercial surrogacy is also frequently racist
house

BeyondSceptical · 31/05/2018 10:49

Apologies erish, with the random points being raised all over the shop, it's easy to miss one Grin

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2018 10:53

No worries Beyond Grin didn't want my shoehorning to go unremarked!

birdsdestiny · 31/05/2018 10:56

Surrogacy is a feminist issue, no one is laying it at posies feet. If the above information about Cornwall is true then the damage is immense. No one in the outside world cares enough to differentiate between a number of groups. If the lurkers are important then I imagine a shedload of them have been alienated.

Elendon · 31/05/2018 10:59

There's always someone to spoil the mood.

nauticant · 31/05/2018 11:18

If the lurkers are important then I imagine a shedload of them have been alienated

This is usually the point that gets missed. People often get wrapped up in fighting a battle against their own side safe in the knowledge that they're good people, and anyway the other side are wrong so that other battle is there to be won, whenever.

The problem is that if you're going for public support in the face of proposed political change the real battle, the one to fight, is between the two sides. To my mind that's where this sorry business will have done the damage.

Elendon · 31/05/2018 11:26

Actually I disagree. Lurkers are not stupid, nor are they shy, nor are they beyond comprehension skills.

I think the issues discussed here have been clear.

It's up to lurkers to make their mind up.

Battle between the two sides I'm all for a repeat of the 'battle of the sexes'.

Seriously. This is an important debate about how women should not be put in their place but be free to discuss the issues that affect them most.

HarryLovesDraco · 31/05/2018 11:30

The Truro meeting isn't a new touring group Hmm
WPUK support local women to arrange meetings. The local women who arranged the Truro meeting and who wanted posie to speak have decided to go ahead with the planned meeting without the support of WPUK, which is perfectly fine. I very much doubt they will start arranging other meetings around the country

LassWiADelicateAir · 31/05/2018 11:40

I’m not an ex-Catholic. Your reading comprehension needs work

Oh ha ha. I was clearly describing myself as ex Catholic, not you. Better work on your own reading skills.

I assumed, that as you were claiming repeal of the 8th was down to Catholic women, that you were Catholic

LassWiADelicateAir · 31/05/2018 11:44

Elendon

You have been fully hoisted by your own petard

Yes Elendon - I thought that too re Miss Susan. There she is not even Catholic yet speaking out for all Catholic Irish women.

ScienceIsTruth · 31/05/2018 12:04

@therealposieparker, I think I get what you were trying to say.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I read your tweet as meaning that it doesn't make sense that someone who is so dysphoric or hating of her femaleness would want to get pregnant as that is a uniquely female thing to do.

Also, to then deny being their mother could be very harmful to the child. At the end of the day, the baby has no choice in this, but it should be at the front of all decisions.

Surely, this would be the ultimate trigger for worsening of their dysphoria?

How can you hate your female body so much that you have your breasts cut off, but then want to experience pregnancy and all those changes your body goes through? It just makes no sense.

I have to say that I agree with @Truscum on this, and can only surmise that the TIFs that want to go through pregnancy aren't really dysphoric, but are simply extremely uncomfortable with how women are perceived in today's society and so want to be seen as men.
I do believe that GID is a mental health condition similar to anorexia and I do think it should be treated with therapy, first and foremost, and that full transition should be a last resort due to the health implications/risks of hormone therapy and surgery.
I have every sympathy for people who experience dysphoria, but GID seems to be the only mental health issue where we go along with the delusions these people are suffering, instead of trying to help them come to terms with reality, and at least trying to get them to accept the body they already have, and maybe being happy being gender non-conforming before 'allowing' them to take extreme measures such as surgery/hormones.

My main concern against TIFs going through pregnancy is actually the effect on the baby. I'm not 'allowed' to get pregnant (and have to use 2 forms of contraception to be sure) because the medication I'm on is extremely harmful to a foetus. So much so that I'd have to be off the meds for 2 years before trying to get pregnant.
I think that any TIF that has started on hormone therapy shouldn't be putting a foetus at risk of harm by getting pregnant as we don't know the risks involved in this. I also can't understand anyone that would want to risk the health of their unborn child when there are other ways to experience motherhood (eg, adoption).

Fundamentally though, pregnancy is a UNIQUELY female experience, which is completely at odds with someone who says that they 'feel like a man' and were 'born in the wrong body'. That just makes no sense.

BeyondSceptical · 31/05/2018 12:12

I think the interesting question that comes from that science, is where is the line for a TIF between dysphoria regarding pressure of patriarchy (external, if you will) which could tbh be an entirely logical response (be that to protect against GNC, sexual abuse, or homosexuality), and dysphoria that has an internal source.

I'd hazard a guess that both are and can "prove" they are experiencing dysphoria, but that it could be the first type who are more likely to wish to become pregnant? Or maybe it's the second? Obviously I don't know the answer and afaik it hasn't been looked at yet, but it's exactly the type of thing that should researched.

MissSusanSays · 31/05/2018 12:27

LassWiADelicateAir

Ooh, look at you. All angry and stompy. You’re so silly. And obviously trolling for a fight.

I only have one thing to say to you:

Wibble.

UpUrm · 31/05/2018 12:28

I have not RTFT but I don't know why people are raging about freedom of speech. Posie HAS freedom of speech.

People have the right not to like what she's saying.

The hijab on young girls doesn't sit easy with me at all but nor do a lot of things that I do myself - like shaving my legs.

You may not like it but it's imperative that the gender critical campaign remains as squeaky clean as possible or we are forever going to be associated with racism and right-wing politics.

I am in a few GC groups, we have a few loose cannons and they don't do us any favours. We should not be making personal attacks against Susie Green either, imho.