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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

You need to read this article about the Leeds red light district.

476 replies

DJLippy · 26/05/2018 18:36

I read this blog about the Leeds red light district from someone who lives there. It's so illuminating. This needs a wider audience - please share on social media. This is what decriminalisation looks like.

littlegirlblue.blog/2018/05/25/living-in-the-red-light-district/

OP posts:
Baroquehavoc · 27/05/2018 11:49

I agree the article needs a bigger audience.

And I agree that part of the reason this isn't tackled is that the victims are predominantly class girls and women.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 11:49

What about those stuck in a sexless relationship who just need some release

Masturbation

because they fundamentally love their partner and family life and only seek out sex workers because it is better than being constantly frustrated/breaking up the family or having a full on affair which results in more deceit

I can't really be bothered picking that ^ apart. It speaks for itself.

On the other hand- what a pithy and succinct post

Legalising prostitution isn’t about helping the women it’s about reducing stigma for the disgusting men who think they are entitled to sex

Exactly.

Baroquehavoc · 27/05/2018 11:52

I don't know how people can read the article and then justify the abuse of girls and women.

QuarksandLeptons · 27/05/2018 11:53

I agree that getting one / some papers to write about it.
I wouldn’t totally write off the Guardian. Yes, they are pandering to their lefty dude bros at the moment with their sex worker lies but they do still occasionally have decent feminist pieces from Gail Dines and Julie Bindel from time to time.
Rhiannon Cossett is also a young Guardian writer with some sensible feminist leanings who I think may also be interested in this story.

FreiasBathtub · 27/05/2018 11:56

What a sadly enlightening thread. On that Leeds Live piece - is it really correct that the rules of the managed zone only apply to the women who work there? Are there no rules at all for the punters? I mean, obviously they're subject to the law (for whatever that's worth in a place that the police won't go) but are there really no rules about not approaching women outside the permitted times, not approaching women outside the mandated area, outside businesses etc?

Doesn't that just tell you everything you need to know about the men who designed this approach? All of the power to the men, all of the responsibility and risk to the women.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 11:56

And ‘what about disabled men/men just looking for companionship’ type arguments too. Neither of those fly either. The disabled and lonely don’t get a free pass to engage in rape

I think we should acknowledge that there is little , if any, evidence that the disabled and the lonely asked or wanted to be co-opted by pimps and punters.

Offred · 27/05/2018 12:00

It’s only some disabled people really though isn’t it... If these dicks weren’t on feminist chat they’d make it clear it was disabled men that they were talking about.

Offred · 27/05/2018 12:01

Disabled women through poverty are the ones being raped for money not the ones ‘entitled to pay for sex they aren’t getting’...

Offred · 27/05/2018 12:04

If you can watch the bbc series and read that blog still make those kinds of articles then you’re an irredeemable misogynist and probably trying to justify your own rape of women.

Offred · 27/05/2018 12:04

*arguments

Offred · 27/05/2018 12:07

Also Hilary benn isn’t even a champagne socialist... he’s a labour moderate trading off his dad’s reputation.

Bowlofbabelfish · 27/05/2018 12:15

I think we should acknowledge that there is little , if any, evidence that the disabled and the lonely asked or wanted to be co-opted by pimps and punters

Just referring to the thread the other day on here that dealt with this subject - some very unpleasant Male apologists using the ‘disabled men’ angle to then segue into ‘lonely men’ and then ‘any man who hasn’t got a convenient woman to have sex with.’

Very unpleasant thread :(

SardineReturns · 27/05/2018 12:18

"approaching women outside the permitted times, not approaching women outside the mandated area, outside businesses etc?"

Kerb crawling is illegal I think but many women have been kerb crawled just generally, I have been offered money for sex more than once, just in general life. In areas like this (my friend went to uni in Leeds and lived in a place with a lot of street prostitution) it's just a daily thing that you get.

While kerk crawling is illegal I dont' know how many actually report it and what the police would do if you did. Most women I think just put up with this sort of stuff, while feeling angry about it, at least they did when we were young.

The other thing is like in general life, there is no context to who they ask, as with non prostitute woman talking activities, men just seem to take a scatter-gun "no harm in asking" approach. Hence you get men kerb crawling / approaching generally, schoolgirls, women with children, heavily pregnant women etc. The men don't look for any clues as to whether she will be receptive to what they are asking for, they just register "female - can see tits. got a good selection of holes" and go and see what they can get.

I think for men, who presumably don't get these kind of approaches, they can't (can't be bothered to) understand why these kind of approaches are intimidating, unsettling, dehumanising. The response is that if you dont' want to be approached by random men for sex when you're out and about, you must think there is something "wrong" with being a prostitute and you're "whorephobic". This is something I have seen on libfem boards as well. Only the very hard of thinking can't understand why it's not good and adds to the weight of street harassment.

0ccamsRazor · 27/05/2018 12:23

Men who buy sex should be criminalised and, in my opinion, subjected to some societal opprobrium. They are the lowest of the low

this x 100

ohfortuna · 27/05/2018 12:24

A very powerful article and I agree that everyone needs to read it

numptynuts · 27/05/2018 12:32

Can we get this thread moved to general? This really needs putting out there for all to read.

And celine Thanks** thank you for coming on and talking with us.

ohfortuna · 27/05/2018 12:33

Yes move it to general and make it blog of the day

PencilsInSpace · 27/05/2018 12:42

Julie Bindel is the obvious choice of journalist to take this further. YY to blog of the day.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 12:46

Julie Bindel is the obvious choice of journalist to take this further

I disagree. Bindel is too easy to write off as an extremist preaching to the converted. It needs a more conventional, mainstream journalist.

SardineReturns · 27/05/2018 12:48

I wouldn't get Julie Bindel's name on it personally as while she is massive advocate for reducing harm of prostitution, drawing attention to the harm, a lot of poeple disregard what she says because of who she is, and trolls follow her around.

Having an issue like this raised by someone who is not perceived in the mainstream as having an axe to grind would be more impactufl - sadly is it were Julie then people think "oh she's on about this again".

SardineReturns · 27/05/2018 12:48

xpost

AnyFucker · 27/05/2018 13:03

I am pretty sure Julie can stand up for herself, but actually that stinks

She is so recognised for the good she does we now have to consider her input would dilute the message ?. Fuck, what have we come to ?

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 13:11

She is so recognised for the good she does we now have to consider her input would dilute the message ?. Fuck, what have we come to ?

She is not universally recognised as for the good. She isn't even recognised like that on here (those awful articles about mothers and children for example)

It is not a question of diluting the message.

Alternateview · 27/05/2018 13:12

You may all not believe this, but I truly believe in equality!

I am not referring to anyone who is forced into the situation, but to those, and it may only be a few where they have chosen the life.

Lets take this to it,s ultimate conclusion. Lets suppose that all sex workers were doing this under duress,
And that all men are lower than low if they have sex with a sex worker whether or not she is a willing partner.
This drives it further underground, or if you are able to fully stop anyone from buying/selling sex. What alternatives are left for both sides.

Worst case scenario for the buyer is frustration. Worst case for the seller (if they have no other means) is no food, shelter, etc.

If we are looking at the street walkers, which in fairness have a pretty crappy life. What would be your suggestions for them.

Maybe some of the well meaning souls should go down there and give each one some cash each night and tell them they don,t need to do this.

Maybe take one into your home and show them a better life and save them from being exploited.

I would imagine neither of these are options.

I say again! I am not in support of anyone being exploited! I just think that regardless of any ones thoughts it will happen. So it should be made safer.

LassWiADelicateAir · 27/05/2018 13:18

I am not referring to anyone who is forced into the situation, but to those, and it may only be a few where they have chosen the life

I don't care if they have chosen it. Prostitution is damaging to society as a whole.

And that all men are lower than low if they have sex with a sex worker whether or not she is a willing partner

Yes- they are.

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