Lesbian gets banned from LGBTQ+ messaged board for trying to talk about the lesbophobia in trans activism

[LostLesbian380]

www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/8m6o53/its_time_to_talk_about_terf/

In case they delete it, this is the body of the original post:

Hey LGBTQ+ friends,

I'm sure many of you have heard the term "TERF," and assume that it means "someone who hates trans people." That's what I thought until a couple of weeks ago, when I got called a TERF for being homosexual rather than homogenderal. I am a lesbian and the way my sexual orientation functions is toward female people only. Transgender women are valid, but they unfortunately have a mix of male and female sex characteristics, and for me, I am only sexually attracted to female sex characteristics. Growing up, I tried very hard to be bisexual; I didn't want to be gay, I wanted to have a husband and a normal life, and realizing that I physically could not experience attraction to male people was very difficult for me to accept. I finally came to terms with it- but unfortunately now, I am experiencing a lot of homophobia from the unlikeliest of places: within LGBTQ+ itself, specifically, the QT.

Which is why I want to have a conversation with y'all. I am a supporter of trans rights; I have signed up to volunteer in a name change clinic in law school, took a Transgender Studies class in undergrad, have many transgender friends, and overall support trans people having full civil rights. I also support trans people being treated with MUCH more dignity and respect than is standard in today's society. I want to be an ally to trans people, and I do still consider myself an ally to trans people in general- but what I have an issue with is the TRA (trans rights activism) movement, which seems to have gone off the rails. One of the TRA movement's primary tactics is using the term "TERF" to shut down intellectual discourse. Over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that people who do consider trans women to be women are being called a TERF, at ever-increasing rates. These are just a few of the reasons I've seen female people get called a "TERF" by TRAs:

-Saying there are objective physical differences between trans women and biological women (which does not invalidate anyone's identity btw)

-Being a lesbian (exclusive homosexual attraction)

-Acknowledging male and female socialization as distinct experiences (even if a trans woman's childhood doesn't resemble "boyhood" it is not "girlhood;' it is something else entirely that is totally valid and deserving of respect and compassion)

-Being uncomfortable with penises and penis-talk in lesbian communities

-Being uninterested in dating someone with both male & female sex characteristics

-Talking about biological female experiences and anatomy

-Expressing any hesitancy about self-ID/worries that biological men will take advantage of it

So it's time to have a conversation. When ya'll talk about "punching TERFs" or other violence towards "TERFs," you are talking about people like me- an ally to trans people who wants to remain an ally, but is feeling incredibly alienated by the TRA movement which seeks to erase my sexuality by saying lesbians can be attracted to both sexes. Ls and Gs probably have a deeper innate understanding of why this is so painful for a homosexual person to hear. I am hoping to have a productive conversation with LGBTQ+ people on this subreddit to discuss this issue, and I ask that everyone approach the topic with empathy, care, and respect.

The lesbian who made this post got attacked, belittled, demeaned, and banned within an hour.

I am not surprised. Authoritarian heterosexual males are in control of most formerly LGBT groups and organizations.

I got banned from the LGBT board, and I didn't even post anything! I messaged the mods and asked if it was okay for me to Start a thread on the reasons why the 't' is associated with the 'LGB'. They responded by calling me a transphobe and banning me!

That's a really great post. There is clearly not an ounce of transphobia there, just a woman with a brain and thoughts of her own saying things that a man disapproves of.

It's so sad that basically the whole online world except it seems mumsnet is under the control of misogynistic bullies.

That post perfectly sums up the issues for me. I've also always been supportive of trans people or anyone who is gender non-conforming and still am. But there is a serious problem with misogyny in the movement and it really worries me.

I have been banned from

/r/lgbt
/r/actuallesbians
/r/feminism
/r/askfeminists

And probably a couple of others that I can't recall as well. All are subs controlled mostly by men.

Mostly I have been banned for saying lesbians aren't interested in men or penis which is considered violent transphobia in this new world of left-wing homophobia.

Oh and that post has now been removed and the user likely banned.

How are these ban-happy people going to cope in real life situations where they need to calmly and clearly articulate their opinions and persuade others of their stance? Like a work environment where they are trying to resolve conflict or press for a specific analysis software package, or even as a manager attempting to resolve conflict between employees or departmental priorities?

Will they just have a tantrum and scrabble around for a ban button?

Banning is for the times when you have a persistent breaching of hate speech, personal multiple attacks, spamming of boards etc. Not for ‘posting something that makes me unhappy.’

I despair.

I wonder when all these woke lesbians and feminists will wake up. Sadly I didn't until I was lot older, when you start to realise how biased society is against you.

really good point Bowlofbabelfish. banning someone for respectfully giving an opinion you disagree with? wtaf?

I have never been able to get on with reddit, just the whole layout and mechanic of the site seems obstructive and difficult to navigate. But I thought that anyone could start a board on any topic? So are there not other boards where these discussions can be had?

Hurray for mumsnet, the only place where women don't get banned for stating the obvious.

Women have set up other boards, they often get spammed and visited by persitant trolls just as this one does.

Women have set up other boards, they often get spammed and visited by persitant trolls just as this one does.

Women must not be allowed to speak amongst themselves. They might get ideas.

I'm not surprised they were banned.

The instant you unpick any difference between biological women and men-who-say-they-is, it's transphobic.

It is a scary homophobic cult.

That's very sad, OP. I agree that there is a lot of misogyny in TRA ideology.

A lesbian friend of mine has been lamenting the erasure of lesbians from LGBT organisations. It seems that the only 'lesbians' allowed an opinion on this topic now are heterosexual TRAs.

Urgh, typos, sorry.

Lesbians are our canary, imo.

Excellent post and I really feel for the girl who posted it. The comments on Reddit smack of tribalism and the whole thing is very worrying.

Isn't it interesting how we don't see the same attacks on gay men and that gay men are happy to turn their back on lesbians to support trans ideology, when it also goes against their sexual orientation.

Lesbians are the main "villains" because autogynephiles mostly want lesbians to believe that they are lesbians too, so sexual rejection by them is the hardest to take.

This was written by a guy who is aware he has AGP and not gender dysphoria - "Because part of the paraphilia is being viewed as a “hot” woman with other women. That’s where the lesbian fantasies come from. There’s something alluring about being seen as desirable the way attractive women are seen, but we’re not gay so we don’t want men to see us that way."

It must be particularly tough for a liberal lesbian right now. Reddit has its gender critical board - but presumably she isn't really gender critical. A UK parenting site with a GC-leaning feminism board probably wouldn't even occur to her as a place where she wouldn't be silenced.

but presumably she isn't really gender critical.

After the ways she’s been treated there, maybe it’s the first step on the path. And yes, maybe MN isn’t the first natural home that would spring to mind for her but she’d be very welcome here. And no one would be banning her for such thoughtful considerate posts either.

The original post was articulate and fair. It made important points. I'm appalled that's how she was treated

MN isn't on the face of it an obvious home for transsexuals either, yet some seem to have found it to be a place they can post freely

Why aren't gay men being bullied and excluded for not wanting relationships with female-bodied people?

That is a fantastic post. Is the poster aware of here (FWR on MN)?

Given that the post has a number of references that sound American, she may not be. Can someone direct her here? We need her clarity and compassion.

She puts the case so clearly about how one can be gender critical and also a trans ally.

Wonderful stuff!

Magdalen Berns
'Re: I'm Transphobic because I like Boobs & Vaginas':

James Kirkup:
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-silencing-of-the-lesbians/

Not that there isn’t already clarity and compassion. But we can always do with more and I thought the post refuted the TERF slur really well