How can transwomen know they are a woman trapped in a man’s body?

[IwankaTramp]

I don’t understand.

Could it just be they don’t feel they fit into how they perceive men in society are gendered and their logic is that they must therefore be female?

If you are born a man how can you possible know what it is to be woman? That is not your frame of reference.

Why do most transwomen present as hyper sexualised versions of women?

Why are many trans activists insisting on transwomen being called real women when they are trans women who have a need for their own particular protections and services unique to their experiences? Surely being trans is something to be celebrated in its own right?

Why are the perceived needs of so few suppressing the needs and rights of so many?

Why are women called transphobic when they have absolutely no issue with men identifying themselves as trans women and want them to be protected from discrimination as such?

What is wrong with asking that a process is in place that protects trans women and women from men who would exploit the self identification for nefarious purposes? Surely it benefits both?

Trying to unravel this and struggling.

Yes...I read the book too

Because they have body dysphoria and there anatomy causes them distress to the point they take hormones to develop a more womanly body? Not all trans people have the same feelings I'm sure.

Are gender roles for children more profound that they were 30 years ago?

My cousin (a girl) dressed in boys clothes, boys underwear, had a boys haircut for years and years (all through primary school and into secondary), used to say she wished she had a penis and wished she was a boy. Her parents just said matter of factly that she can’t be a boy/isn’t a boy but can still do the same thing as boys. She is now married to a DH with DC.
She wears dresses, skirts, make up sometimes now, jeans etc other times like lots of women.

I wonder if it happened now then the school/someone else would have intervened, sent her to gender clinics, etc?

If I think back to my teen years, we were far less sexualised in our dress than girls of the same age are today. A girl wearing Levi’s, Kickers, a Benetton jumper and a puffer jacket was an 80s staple. Boys wore more or less the same.

It’s not because feats of science have rendered previously unimaginable things possible (hormone treatments, gender reassignment surgery, IVF, butt and breast implants) that those things are biologically harmless.

If I think back to my teen years, we were far less sexualised in our dress than girls of the same age are today. A girl wearing Levi’s, Kickers, a Benetton jumper and a puffer jacket was an 80s staple. Boys wore more or less the same.

I blame the Disney Princess culture - getting little girls hooked on sparkle and glitter before they've even started school

“As for why she believes she is a woman - and she does believe she is - that's harder. Personally I think as a young gay man she didn't fit into any box really...she was never a blokey bloke but she wasn't a camp gay guy either. I think there was a lot of underlying unhappiness with her sense of self. I think the idea of being trans came along as a kind of answer. Whether it makes her happy or not only time will tell.“

I think this makes a lot of sense. It must be very difficult not to fit the “male” expectations in society - especially if you deviate a lot from the “norm”

Bizarrely false aesthetics promoted by commercial interests as gender stereotype goals certainly seem to be confusing many humans as to their biologically rooted identities. What a very weird culture we live in.

Yes, i stand back and try to detach my socialisation to all this crap and watch ads etc and think - why is that woman posing, flouncing around like that - it’s bizarre and embarrassing but intriguing how we the whole sexualisation culture has developed. Saw an ad earlier on telly for a clothesline catalogue/online business - the woman doing the whole sexy coquettish swirling - it’s just bloody weird.

You have TIM's coming on here trying to tug on our heartstrings and female socialisation. Yeah, it worked with me for a while but I've read too much now and see through a hell of a lot of the crap they post. I want to know, apart from the validation they crave what the hell they think they are going to achieve posting on a forum for women and their children.

@NatLuc "I think I felt that I needed to rush things while I was young to maximise my chances of finding love again?" I can understand this, but I hope you are looking after yourself.

@Damnthatonestakentryanother2 "I am sure most girls "know" that they are girls long before they know exactly what is involved in being a woman. But because their gender identity matches their genitals, it never becomes an issue."

I really do not think I had a gender identity as a child. I only know about gender now, because I am reading about it. I feel happy to be a woman but that doesn't mean I would automatically 'buy' into things associated with being female.

"Why do most transwomen present as hyper sexualised versions of women?
They don't. That is a myth, based (I think) on confusion between..."

trans-v-t-s
crossdressers
transsexuals

(Some Trans activists are specifically looking for words in posts like trans-v-t-s which is why I've not reproduced the word in your quote.)

But Stonewall now draws no distinction between these things. This is why some women are so bothered by proposed changes to the GRC
(gender certificate).

""gender identity" (as opposed to "gender role" is innate..." what exactly is gender identity as opposed to gender role?

@Damnthatonestakentryanother2 The idea that trans women are part of ‘woman’ really suggests that women are not distinct.

Some people, who are now demanding access to female only spaces, are suggesting a woman needing a smear test (when a female is asked for) could have the smear done by anyone who identifies as a woman, and demanding that male prisons, who identify as women, should go into women’s prisons.

Jenny Murray (or anyone) having a tummy tuck doesn’t affect me. Being told there is no such thing as female biology does. I expect having to share a prison with a male rapist affects those poor women in prison with that male rapist. And even though I am not in prison, I feel those women should not have to face that.

I was very sympathetic to trans women until I started being told that trans women were women, that male rapists belonged in a female jail, and were not actually male anyway, and all that stuff.

I am really sorry you feel you have wasted a lot of your life. You have said you have children so presumably these children were born while you were ‘living as a man’ and you fathered them, so I would say your life was not wasted.

I do not think you can expect all women to deny biological reality, some of us cannot do it, I know some can and will, and will say anything and that is fine, but for those of us who believe that female is not an identity, we just cannot change our thoughts because others have had a tough time etc. It doesn’t mean we cannot act in a caring way.

The expectation that all women will simply accept a trans narrative version of reality is not something some of us can do, or want to do.

“As I see it, trans-women and cis-women are both categories of women. We are different, but we have a lot in common.”

What do you think we have in common?

“We could all gain a lot by co-operating. “ I am all for co-operation but the trouble is with self id the co-operation comes at a cost to us, it really does, and for some of us, that just isn’t worth it. I’m not sure what trans women can bring to feminism, I am afraid the whole Girl Guides thing has destroyed my faith in the ‘trans agenda’.

I am sure most girls "know" that they are girls long before they know exactly what is involved in being a woman. But because their gender identity matches their genitals, it never becomes an issue

Nope. I can honestly say that it was something I never ever thought about. I only 'knew' I was a girl because other people told me - usually negatively as in 'you can't do that / like that - that's for boys'. Or being called a tomboy, or told to act more ladylike.
The dissonance was between me and society - made worse because I looked like a stereotypical girl. Blonde curls, very slim, squeaky voice!
Only TIMs think that they are the only ones to experience gender disparity - which is why I hate the word 'cis' so much.
A lot of us have spent our whole life trying to perform 'femininity'.

Only TIMs think that they are the only ones to experience gender disparity - which is why I hate the word 'cis' so much.
A lot of us have spent our whole life trying to perform 'femininity'.

Exactly- which is why “cis” is a load of nonsense.

I only knew I was a girl because I was treated differently to boys.

I am sure most girls "know" that they are girls long before they know exactly what is involved in being a woman.

And here you have the exact reason why whatever this special inner feeling of being a woman is has absolutely nothing to do with women or actually being one.

The expectation that all women will simply accept a trans narrative version of reality is not something some of us can do, or want to do.

Quite. Because, as above, the trans narrative of what makes a woman has absolutely nothing to do with women or actually being one.

Conversely, I believe (correct me if wrong) the lesbian community is more accepting of butch women. So in some ways it is very difficult to understand why so many young women who are lesbians or bi, or even straight are identifying as boys.

An attempt (arguably misguided) to escape both misogyny and lesbophobia is quite understandable.

The youngest transman of my acquaintance (a GNC girl who I assumed would become a lesbian adult) had a rather authoritarian, certainly misogynist and almost certainly homophobic father. I don’t think it’s unconnected.