Is this really a feminist board?

[GaspingShark]

I am a crap feminist. I haven't read a single book on the subject. Not De Beauvoir, not Greer, not Butler. The reasons for that are to do with a disability that I'd rather not go into, but I am a woman with a brain, and the Republic of Ireland is having a referendum on repealing the 8th this week. There it is, look, thirty threads down. And this "Feminism and Women's Rights" board's primary concern seems to be "What it will really take the peak trans the world?"

So I'm asking you, because I genuinely, honestly, cross my heart and hope to die, believe you are all better read and/or have more experience and/or more knowledge of being a woman than I do.

Doesn't that bother you? Doesn't it bother you that, four days away from the repeal vote, there's one thread on that in the bottom third of a fifty-thread page, and two or three dozen trans-related threads covering everything from Amnesty International to Jordan Peterson to exactly what Munroe Bergdorf told Venice Allan? Does it give you any pause for thought?

Here you go

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/6kkeni/theerulesoffmisogyny/

And you didn't answer why you've not started a thread here about the Irish abortion question or started one in the other place we both post.
You're being shady.

I haven't started any threads on there for a very long time and I did say, I felt neither engaged nor well-informed enough on the 8th to start a thread about it or contribute to one on here.

Many people, quite rightly, wear feminism as a badge of honour and I've never been able to do that and I frequently feel a little bit ashamed of that so I'm absolutely not telling you how to feminist. But it did surprise me to have a massive great feminist board in the week of the 8th vote with only one thread about it on the first page. Maybe wrongly.

You didn't express your surprise, though. You decided instead to chide other posters for not doing what you wanted.

Which is crazy when you haven't started or contributed to any threads on here.

You can start a thread in seconds. It's easy and you don't need any qualifications. Try it, post on topics that you think are important and stop whinging about what others are doing.

She did start a thread the other day. It was what you might call a JAQing off thread.

Thanks Errol

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.
5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
11th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
12th rule of misogyny: Women's ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.
13th rule of misogyny: Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.

Love that list, so true.

I'm confused.
I have my fingers crossed that they repeal the 8th.
There is nothing much else I can do, living in England.

Is it that you want me to care LESS about the erosion of the rights of the 33 million people-born-with-XX chromosomes-and-ovaries in THIS country?

Because I thought that preserving the very definition and recognition of that class of people (the class that NEED the 8th to be repealed for their own sakes) was the foundation upon which theirs and my own rights would stand.

How to recognise the rights of a biological class that need abortions when apparently recognising that biological class in law is deemed transphobic, is quite the brain teaser.

Probably why there are a bazillion threads on the subject.

Either we exist as a biological class and are recognised, so that we can be accorded rights as a biological class, or we don't.

You decide, OP, because I'm knackered with perpetually explaining that you can't protect a class you refuse to recognise.

And I'm tired of expecting fuckwits to comprehend that they need to examine their own failure to think critically.

If you care about the fortunes of the biological group that have uteruses and bear children, whether with our consent or without, then fucking join the fight to have us recognised as distinct and equal to the biological group that ejaculate sperm and hold all the power to control the laws that govern us.

Define us
Recognise us.
Respect our autonomy.
Acknowledge our reality.
Afford us our rights.
Enforce our protections.

@SardineReturns - good summary. I'd add that you can't blinkin' well talk about the trans issue anywhere else without getting thrown out and/or threatened - so people do.

But, yeah, it is unhealthy. The whole blooming situation's unhealthy. The #nodebate bollocks has enforced one orthodoxy elsewhere, which means that those who don't agree with it end up converging here, which means a) that another orthodoxy holds sway here b) that nothing much else gets talked about.

Really, the trans issue (like other feminist issues) should be being discussed, in public, without anyone being threatened or insulted, and without anyone being expected to subscribe to anyone else's dogma. Until then, voices suppressed elsewhere will converge where they are permitted.

Referring back to the first sentence of the OP:
I am a crap feminist.

Self realisation is a beautiful thing.

Finally I've saved the misogyny rules. Thank you thebewilderness

OP

I'm sure you can get hold of those books you haven't read on audio - if that suits you better.

I am struck by the fact that you say you feel ashamed. Maybe that is what you need to work on.

Classic. Absolutely classic.

‘It’s Ireland, we’re in The UK. Nothing to do with us’.

You’ve heard of a little country called Northern Ireland which also does not have abortion yet and which could benefit from the conversations around this vote? Or is mumsnet English and not really the UK.

In any case there’s lots of Irish on these boards.

I haven't started any threads on there for a very long time and I did say, I felt neither engaged nor well-informed enough on the 8th to start a thread about it or contribute to one on here.

ROFL - right, so you can feel that, but the women here can't. Feels a lot like rules 3, 8 and 9 with a sprinkling of "can't someone else do it for me"

Fuck me Gasping - I was annoyed, but that's just hilarious

Disturbingly

Also, and let's not forget this: Such a thread exists but the OP didn't feel able to post on it

You’ve heard of a little country called Northern Ireland which also does not have abortion yet and which could benefit from the conversations around this vote? Or is mumsnet English and not really the UK.

Repeal the 8th is The Republic of Ireland - a separate country to Northern Ireland, so no, we're not going to wade in and start talking about NI when it's irrelevant - that would be bizarre.

We've had discussions around Northern Ireland more than once, when it's been in the relevant news.

Disturbingly, the vote down South will have relevance up here.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-44198421

thebewilderness thankyou for the misogyny list last night (forgot my manners there)

Hideandgo

I notice you haven't posted on the Repeal The 8th thread either.

This is comedy gold. Being told what to do and how to thin by people who can't be arse to post on a thread about which they themselves feel passionate

think

I didn’t see any repeal the 8th thread. This one came up on active. I don’t go on the feminism board anymore unfortunately, so I only see what’s in active. Don’t worry, I’m very active regarding the topic on other forms of social media.

I just thought it was laughable how once again Northern Ireland is completely forgotten to exist in the UK.

OK

Maybe start a thread on that premise?

I went to Belfast (fist time - great trip) a few weeks ago and was struck by how pissed off people were about the Brexit vote. My absolute sympathies on that one.

I’m intrigued - the alt right as feminist bastion? This is a genuinely new development. And the conflation with religion - again this is a new one on me.

Like most other anti-GC rhetoric it's borrowed from the US, the Tumblr/Twitter pro-TRA part thereof specifically. It makes even less sense when they attempt to paste it onto the UK, a very different country politically.

If Gasping wants to see more of a variety of threads then she can be the change she seeks and start some (that are actually about different issues rather than about scolding people for talking about the trans issue, like this one).

I wish there was something I could do to help ensure a repeal vote in Ireland, but they rather frown on Brits who aren't even resident in the UK trying to vote in their elections, understandably given the history and all.