LM trying to get a labour worker (not politician) fired

[Notthatwomanagain]

Are you allowed to hold your own views if you work for a party but aren’t a politician?
She could get fired if this is pursued Im guessing?

[SupermatchGame]

It's funny how it's only women who get this treatment online, isn't it?

Are there any men currently in Labour or politics who are publicly misgendering people? (Not being sarcastic, genuinely interested to know)

[CharlieParley]

SupermatchGame Oh but the misgendering is fine though. Not insulting at all.

Oh but the mis-sexing is definitely insulting. I find it distressing, upsetting and unbelievably offensive. A slap in the face to any woman who has ever been opressed because of her sex. A stab in the back of any feminist who ever fought for women's rights.

Now I know you don't care about how I feel about anything because I'm a woman and not a man like other people you care about so deeply but just thought I would share that with you since you felt free to share your disgust with us.

And please let me know by what mechanism you're going to force me or the tweeter in question to adhere to a belief system we do not share, refuse to partake in and I for my part consider as dangerous as a number of other, much older, belief systems. Our right to not share a belief is protected.

FYI at the time that was tweeted LM was not legally female (no idea about now, but I happen to know LM wasn't when that tweet was written).

So how will you force us?

[StarsAndWater]

Oh but the mis-sexing is definitely insulting. I find it distressing, upsetting and unbelievably offensive. A slap in the face to any woman who has ever been opressed because of her sex. A stab in the back of any feminist who ever fought for women's rights.

This x 1000.

To insist there is no difference between trans women and biological women dismisses thousands of years of women's bodies and choices being controlled, and ignores the very real oppression that women and girls face today based on the bodies they were born. Oppression that they cannot choose to identify out of.
Lily Madigan clearly has very little empathy for anyone who isn't Lily Madigan.

[donkey86]

The staff member is most likely paid through the MPs staffing allowance, not Labour Party funds. That makes her a public servant, not a political party worker. She is therefore entitled to whatever views she wishes to express. The only way she could get in trouble for it would be if the tweet was sent during working hours - and then it’d be trouble for skiving on Twitter, not for the opinion expressed. And I’m pretty sure going on twitter wouldn’t count as gross misconduct, so she couldn’t be fired for that.

If anyone is really interested I can fish out my contract from when I worked for an MP and check the wording, but I’m sure it didn’t allow an MP to sack a staff member for expressing views contrary to that of the employing MP.

LM is behaving pretty poorly here. Trying to get anyone sacked for their opinions is verging on fascist, yet they think they have right on their side.

[ArcheryAnnie]

Oh but the misgendering is fine though. Not insulting at all.

I agree with Charlie and Stars that missexing is incredibly insulting, and that being forced to missex is a thousand times more insulting than that.

@SupermatchGame I presume you will agree that our feelings and sensibilities are every bit as important as Madigan's?

[Waddlelikeapenguin]

Oh but the mis-sexing is definitely insulting. I find it distressing, upsetting and unbelievably offensive. A slap in the face to any woman who has ever been opressed because of her sex.
This!

Mince = nonsense/ rubbish

[BeyondPink]

Missexing is not only offensive, but threatening me to submit to telling lies or I will face cuz consequences could be interpreted as an offence of its own under the disability section of the EA.

[bd67th]

@BeyondPink: Missexing is not only offensive, but threatening me to submit to telling lies or will face cuz consequences could be interpreted as an offence of its own under the disability section of the EA.

Or the religion section. Quakers won't take an oath to speak the truth in court because that implies that they would consider lying acceptable outside court, which rhey don't. I believe that Buddhists are also religiously-mandated to always tell the truth.

[AnotherQuoll]

Absolutely agreed, with CharleyParley and %ArcheryAnnie* 100% Missexing is profoundly offensive to girls and women, who've been oppressed by males on basis of our female sex.

We cannot be made to unknow. You're on a list and stupid cause if you think otherwise, and you will be relentlessly opposed and resisted.

[AnotherQuoll]

"You're on a list" ???? Good grief. Auto again, originally typed "You're on a lost and stupid cause if you think otherwise...".

[Ereshkigal]

LM likes lists though so that's how I read it

[AnotherQuoll]

Well that's true

[VaguelyAware]

LM does appear to like lists.

[SupermatchGame]

So how will you force us?

Charlie that's a bit over dramatic isn't it? At what point have I ever tried to force you to say or do anything? I've expressed my opinion as have you. And I've quoted the law where it's relevant. I've challenged your opinions but that isn't forcing.

mis-sexing
LM is presenting as a woman (or trans woman if you prefer) and it's polite to use the preferred pronoun. Lots of people think this including the media, government etc. Not everyone sees sex and gender/ identity/ presentation as such a black and white issue. Dichotomous or polarised thinking is a cognitive distortion.

A slap in the face to any woman who has ever been opressed because of her sex

I don't really see how LM getting treatment for a diagnosed condition is a slap in the face or erases decades of progress by feminists. Again it's very all or nothing thinking. Also magnification - catastrophising.

Now I know you don't care about how I feel

No you don't know what or who I care about - you might think you do but jumping to conclusions or mind-reading is another cognitive distortion as you probably know. Maybe I care about how you feel as much as you care about how I feel?

a man like other people you care about so deeply

I've posted a lot about women and their safety as well. But you seem to have filtered out any positive things I've said. Filtering, there's another one.

And please let me know by what mechanism you're going to force me or the tweeter in question

I'm really not trying to force you at all. I don't think I can change your mind. My future happiness doesn't depend on you. I don't think I can change you as that would be fallacy of change - a cognitive distortion I'm not suffering from.

[Picassospaintbrush]

Cognitive distortion.

Oh dear. I think I will be laughing about that one for a long while.

[Mamaryllis]

Re Morgane - I think it was on the lines of what a shit show the UK was in terms of trans rights, and how he was providing advice as to how to ram through self ID for the good of our poor benighted nation. Basically he was just trying to point out what a joy it is to live in a country where you can be charged for uttering biological reality I think. With a side dose of ‘how great it is to be me’. I was just reminded of it as the bully boy tactics favoured by LM (and Adrian gobshite) are very Oger.

[Ereshkigal]

Thanks Mamaryllis. Can't stand Oger.

[Totallymyownperson]

I’ve decided to call lily the woman finder general

[ArcheryAnnie]

and it's polite to use the preferred pronoun. Lots of people think this

SupermatchGame and lots of people think it's really, really dodgy to try to bully someone into lying. You might subscribe to the ideology that men can become women, and are more oppressed than women, but it's not right that you, Madigan or anyone else should try to bully others into pretending they subscribe to that ideology, too.

And it is bullying, it is trying to force others. It's really disingenuous of you to say it's not forcing, because what else can you describe a situation when someone who has the ear of the Labour leadership is trying very publicly to get a party worker sacked because they don't subscribe to a highly contested ideology?

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Dichotomous or polarised thinking is a cognitive distortion.

On that subject: Do you believe humans can change sex?

[DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg]

Are there any men currently in Labour or politics who are publicly misgendering people? (Not being sarcastic, genuinely interested to know)

Well, I seem to remember listening to the witch-hunt investigation of DrRadFem (I think) by the labour dude, and he used 'he' for Eddie Izzard, during questioning Venice (again, I think it was Venice) about her 'misgendering' Eddie Izzard!!

So yes, plenty of blokes sex people's pronouns correctly with complete impunity.

[bd67th]

The MSM are still gendering Eddie as "he", so whilst Labour Bloke wasn't misgendering him, neither was Venice. And yet Labour Bloke said she was...

Men and TRAs fabricate lies about us to our faces, this is now so blatantly not about trans rights but is about silencing and controlling women.

[AntiqueOlive]

When Eddie Izzard got elected to the new post recently, journalists in the BBC studio commentating on it ( was it Sunday Politics? If not, a programme like that) called him "he'

[LangCleg]

Admiring Bowlofbabelfish's persistence!

I thought the Quakers were why we had affirmations as well as oaths in court but I hadn't realised that it was introduced way back in 1695. Fascinating!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32809040

I don't believe in the legitimacy of gender at all, let alone gender identity - gender is the means by which I, a woman, am disadvantaged by a patriarchal society. So I don't believe it's really even possible to "misgender" someone. If called to give evidence in court, I would take my affirmation seriously and would therefore be obliged to correctly sex people via pronouns. In day-to-day life, I refuse to have my speech compelled by public figures vis a vis pronouns. If I meet you in real life, I'll be polite and use preferred pronouns unless you're an arsehole, in which case I'll call you an arsehole.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Admiring Bowlofbabelfish's persistence

Still waiting for the TRA who will answer YES to my question, langcleg.

No one believes it, and yet they want us all to say we do.