Being told to lighten up - how do you respond?

[doricgirl]

I was walking through the park today with my two year old strapped to my back and stopped to wait for a bunch of 19/20 year old guys playing football across the path to move past so we didn’t get hit.

One of them saw me and stopped the game, I said thanks as I passed - all good. As I was walking away one of them said kick the ball at the kid... so I turned round and said this isn’t funny to which the guy started with oh lighten up hardly a threat etc. I did get quite arse at that point saying when it’s your own child it’s not funny and he told me he didn’t want to have the conversation any more.

Went off to meet my husband and only when telling him did I realise how upset I was. He was furious and pointed out it would not have happened if it had been him or we’d been together.

Am torn between thinking I am just a grumpy old woman (38) and wanting to have better comebacks to this kind of shit.

Any ideas?

Be a grumpy old woman. Honestly, make the most of it. Treat them like naughty toddlers. I would have said something like, does your mum know you are cheeky like this when you are out? I think we should tell her you are being a naughty boy. I bet you are not allowed to be rude like that to your mum are you.

I’d have probably just told them to fuck off. But I’m not quick with comebacks.

At 38 you are not old. Nowhere near old.

I walked my two children through a park and a pack of guys were swearing - really loudly so I looked at them - I got told to "fuck off mum"

It really upset me and my then 5 year old he couldn't understand why someone would say that to me.

I don't know how it wouldn't upset you?

I held it together and didn't retaliate.

Don't know what else to add - casual misogyny or meaness to kids gets me down but you have to soldier on and make sure you don't raise kids who are total pricks.

I think you have to let that idiot pass.

Please don't describe yourself in negative terms because of some other loser.

Nothing wrong with being a grumpy old woman!

"to which the guy started with oh lighten up hardly a threat etc. " this is just one of a suite of responses women get from men when they realise that a woman has dared to confront/criticise/comment on their behaviour. For example, when I had a loudish (might have been slightly sweary as well) word with a bunch of chaps on a crowded train who obviously honestly thought that the entire packed and sweaty carriage would really appreciate their particular choice of music -- I got told to not be so aggressive. It's that chaps consider public spaces as their space, and any women/children in them don't really belong (unless protected/chaperoned by a male). We shouldn't have to resort to mother/child mode in order to deflect them.

Their not losers, or special, they're just ordinary blokes, that's the pisser!

Kick the ball at the kid - the 2yo that is strapped to your back -

Give it a good boot and you both go down.

Yeah fucking hilarious. I'm a bit disabled and would have gone down in a heap if they had done that.

Why is it hardly a threat? A group of people you don't know say why not hurt your child and possibly knock you both to the ground.

Add to this the fact that - don't know about you - but when younger I've had older boys / young men deliberately kick footballs at me hard when I've just been going along minding my own business

And how the fuck do they expect you to react?

WTF is wrong with men? NAMALT but way too many.

I don't think men have any idea how much verbal abuse we get when we're out and about TBH.

"to which the guy started with oh lighten up hardly a threat etc."

Women aren't supposed to name the threat in male dominance displays. Not even when it is a plain and simple threat.
I think what you did was exactly right. You put them in the position of denying that a direct threat was a threat when everyone there knows that it was.
The so called jokes about hurting people are male dominance displays and they are not jokes. Not really.

No of course they aren't jokes.

The woman is supposed to scuttle away meekly and in a fearful manner, then him and his mates can feel strong and powerful.

If the woman doesn't do that, they have 2 routes. Back down (what your ones did) or follow through.

Our problem is, we never know which one we are going to get.

This is a way that all men benefit from the behaviour of a few. We often scuttle away meekly, because we have no way of telling, if we confront them, whether they will back down or escalate. And, they are usually bigger than us.

I think that young men in general have no idea how threatening this sort of thing is, it's seen as a thing amongst themselves, the target is kind of irrelevant. Like sexual harrassment on the street as well, most of the time. They don't give a second thought to the effect on the person they do it to, they don't even recognise them as people, in that moment. It's awful behaviour and I'm sure a lot of it is down to socialisation.

It was a threat. He said to kick the ball at your child, who was strapped to you, so you would have both been hit. And you're supposed to 'lighten up'? He's a total fucking idiot. If people phone the police about their hurt feelings, why not phone them about that threat?

I would have immediately told him: "You do and it wont be the only ball thing that gets kicked, pal!"

Speaking as a bloke, here.

I would have immediately told him: "You do and it wont be the only ball that gets kicked, pal!"

Speaking as a bloke, here.

I was told to "shut up" in a very threatening manner in a coffee shop the other day. I had pointed out to the older man in front of me that he was being very rude and it was uncalled for. he was very angry at the staff for no good reason.

Next thing he turns on me. Told me to shut up and that if I questioned him again I would come off worse.

I am pretty pleased at my response and it is all the reading I do on here that helped me with my lightening quick response. I raised an eyebrow at him and said "oh wow, I wouldn't dare - you're a man after all..."

The man directly behind me started laughing.

I am in no doubt that he wouldn't have spoken to me like that if I was a man. he deliberately tried to silence me. I wasn't having it. he was an arse hole and worst of all - he joined his wife and grandchild outside directly after. What a family man he was...

"I would have immediately told him: "You do and it wont be the only ball thing that gets kicked, pal!"

Speaking as a bloke, here."
Not intended as a criticism, but this does nicely illustrate the typical male response to such a situation the problem being that it is different when a female makes this response they might back down, or hurl more verbal abuse, or actually resort to physical violence.

When I was younger, I did a few times make a typically 'male' response to such threats, and in a few cases (thankfully I didn't get thumped), I was seen as the one being threatening, because I was female, so seen as more aggressive for acting in the same way as many blokes would. Two blokes, after all, can size each other up and puff and threaten, and back down without either one losing face, but a chap backing down when faced with a similar response from a female, he is going to look bad whatever he does. She is, after all, only a woman, and if he can't get a woman to back down, what sort of chap is he?

Hi yes I have to say when I came across the group of men being verbally abusive to me when I had young children I wasn't going to wisecrack or really speak back as if they are that sort you just don't know what they will do next:

So OP I would take it as a threat and you have a young child so getting out of the situation seems the first thing to try.

My comment on you not being old was irrelevant. I think what was relevant was the group and individual behaviour - sexist offensive behaviour.

they're just ordinary blokes

Yes, very common in England to be sure. Have not had that happen at all in Australia. But used to get told to "smile love" all the time in England.

Not on the same topic at all really but I didn't think this deserved a thread of its own.

I was walking to the station yesterday and a man I was passing said, "Lovely hair!" to me. He was probably 60. I'm 45 but probably looked younger to him because I'm slim and I was wearing sunglasses.

I just smiled and said thank you, but it did get me thinking a bit. I genuinely don't believe he meant anything by it - he was, in his head, just being friendly and saying something nice. But at the same time, he would never have said anything similar to a man, or indeed to me if a man had been with me.

I guess it just reminded me how we're forced into there interactions all the time. But then again, maybe if I'd been a man getting out of a Porsche, he'd have said, "Nice car!", because he's a friendly guy.

Once you're aware you can't stop being.

Anyway apols for derailing, and OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It must have been really frightening and upsetting.

Not intended as a criticism, but this does nicely illustrate the typical male response to such a situation the problem being that it is different when a female makes this response they might back down, or hurl more verbal abuse, or actually resort to physical violence.

I added the "Speaking as a bloke" very deliberately for this reason. It's because a clear back the fuck off signal is how we commonly deal with threats and posturing like that and I genuinely believe that it's typically the best response. I've seen women tear strips off men like this very effectively. Whilst I respect your experience, statistically speaking, a man is more likely to be beaten up than a woman. I'd say it's extremely unlikely that he's going to physically attack you in that scenario. It doesn't have to be explicit as to method or even a threat. It can just be "You come near my kid - !" So long as there's some strong "back off" sentiment behind it.

Anyway, we don't have to agree. We're all just giving our advice to the OP who will have to choose what works for her. Women can use aggression too. It's not about physical size. This is just my take.

Whilst I respect your experience, statistically speaking, a man is more likely to be beaten up than a woman. I'd say it's extremely unlikely that he's going to physically attack you in that scenario.

Erm. Men are more likely to be beaten up because men get into these situations with each other more. Once already in this kind of confrontation, I really don't think you can make any claims as to the likelihood of the woman being physically attacked. And you're certainly better able to take such risks as someone with male size, weight and muscle mass, and without a small child to protect. No, it seems you don't get it at all, I'm afraid.

I added the "Speaking as a bloke" very deliberately for this reason.
The question is, why are you speaking at all?

Erm. Men are more likely to be beaten up because men get into these situations with each other more. Once already in this kind of confrontation, I really don't think you can make any claims as to the likelihood of the woman being physically attacked. And you're certainly better able to take such risks as someone with male size, weight and muscle mass, and without a small child to protect. No, it seems you don't get it at all, I'm afraid

This will be my last post on this as I don't want to derail the thread and make it all about this. We're all offering our advice. I offered mine and if you want to claim authority from having some female insight that I don't have, I'll point out that I have a pretty good handle on how men like this think. A guy is a great deal less likely to start physically attacking a woman (especially with a child) than he is a man, both equally mouthing off. Yes - really.

As to my better being able to take such risks because I'm a male - no. Firstly, it's more likely to get physical so I am at greater risk. Secondly, we're plenty vulnerable. We're made out of the same stuff you are. Getting into a fight is a risk for anyone. It's very easy for permanent physical injury to result in a fight. Being a bloke doesn't make the risk small. It's still a big risk. The point of all this is that a bit of verbal aggression makes a boundary. Shows you are ready to defend your child. It works. And I've seen it work plenty well when done by women, too.

But that's my last post on it. OP can file my advice along with everyone else's and consider it or not as she wishes.

The question is, why are you speaking at all?

Correction: One last post on this as you replied whilst I was typing. For the same reason, I hope, that everyone else is - I'm trying to be helpful to the OP.

Do you often get threatened by young men whilst you're carrying your young child, @OldmanOfTheWeb2?

I'm trying to disengage here. The only thing I did was give my honest advice based on my experience and knowledge, to the OP. Why do the three of you have to keep picking on this and derail the thread. In answer to your question, I've been threatened by "young men" on more occasions than I can count. And physically assaulted on several. How about you?

Whilst minding your own business in a park in the daytime whilst carrying your child? That has happened to you on more occasions than you can count?

Yes. Minus the child. Again, how about you?

Or we could just stop derailing the thread and let it be what it was meant to be - contributions from different people without anyone being attacked for it.