Gender pay gap

[FlyTipper]

The world divides into two: those who believe a gender pay gap exists, and those who don't.

Those who don't say women are doing different jobs. They are working part-time, prioritising home/family, do not want the high level responsibility and work load associated with high profile jobs. Thus women choose lower paid jobs because they prefer the conditions.

Those who believe it exists say two people presenting the same show or headlining the same film should be paid the same but clearly are not.

My position: women do different work and this largely explains the observed pay gap. But where the world is set up for men to succeed, women have to pick up the 'crumbs' they can. SO the pay gap doesn't truly exist, but that isn't because of women's choice.

As befits my character, I like to have my views tested. DO you agree?

There is no such thing as a gender pay gap, it is a meaningless term designed by feminists to confuse.
The only thing that matters is that men and women get paid the same for doing the same job.

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/company-behind-fearless-girl-statue-pays-5m-discrimination-article-1.3544153

There is no such thing as a gender pay gap, it is a meaningless term designed by feminists to confuse.

Much hilarity.

@Vicky1990 "There is no such thing as a gender pay gap, it is a meaningless term designed by feminists to confuse."

You have a point - there was that Johnathan Pie video (I think) where he said that most people think "pay gap" means women get paid less than men for the same job, which is clearly false.

The way the media report it doesn't help paint an accurate picture

The only thing that matters is that men and women get paid the same for doing the same job.

They very often don’t.

From long, long industry experience I say this . So there is a sex pay gap. Multiple things contribute - all the structural inequalities discussed earlier which affect the actual jobs women do, the time off for maternity, the fact more women than men go part time, the way facilitated men dominate.
And still with all that, there are still companies employing people to do the same job, with the same qualifications, and the same success levels, and paying the men more than the women. I’ve seen it happen at every level I’ve been at.

In some cases, such as the one in the news report of the settlement I linked to the white men cheat the women and Black men and women because they want to.
They pay a relatively insignificant fine when they get caught.

which is clearly false.

Hahahaha.

Jeez.

@picassospaintbrush

"When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears"

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/01/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work

Oh look another statement supported by an external source! Naughty @fmsfms using evidence!

I have never worked anywhere that pays differently to men and women who do the same job.
Can anybody give an example of different pay to men and women who do exactly the same job?.

The data released this week produced stunning results, with banks, airlines, retailers and British soccer clubs reporting significant differences in the mean salaries between men and women.
time.com/5229228/gender-wage-gap-uk/

I have never worked anywhere that pays differently to men and women who do the same job.

How would you know this?
The law that companies have to publicly disclose wages only went into effect in 2017.

have never worked anywhere that pays differently to men and women who do the same job.Can anybody give an example of different pay to men and women who do exactly the same job?.

Have you had total pay transparency in every job you’ve ever had? That’s unusual. Some employers like universities have pay spines - that’s positive because you can see that Dr. Bloke is grade whatever and thus will be in a set pay bracket. A lot of public sector work is like this.
A significant number of private sector firms make it a condition of employment that salaries are not discussed - since I moved from academic work to private sector this has been the case at every company I’ve been at.
You’d never be able to say ‘widgetco pays all its men ten percent more’ - what tends to happen is that men are hired on higher salaries to begin with, even if they are lower quality/experience years/qualifications than a woman hired at the same time.
I have directly challenged this in my work and been told ‘bloke has a family to support’ once. At other times it’s been grudging agreed that Dr.woman (who had better qualifications, experience and references) should start on the same as Mr. Bloke. I’ve also challenged my own pay level against a man hired on more than me - again lesser qualified (and it turned out not that good at the job.)

The causes of pay disparity are multiple. A lot of it is structural, but I have directly seen differential pay for the same job many, many times, and that experience is echoed by friends in different sectors. It happens. At the higher levels, it gets quite extreme.

@thebewilderness "The data released this week produced stunning results, with banks, airlines, retailers and British soccer clubs reporting significant differences in the mean salaries between men and women.
time.com/5229228/gender-wage-gap-uk/

Hahaha thanks for demonstrating you don't understand the debate

The pay gap reports have nothing to do with equal pay for equal jobs. They're just reporting the gap between men and women in yearly salaries

Why do you think football teams with players on £1m+ salaries have a pay gap?

How many women play in the man United first team? Lol

And don't even think of saying women's football should be paid the same as mens, we'll nip that one in the bud instantly

Bizarre that you would post numerous irrelevant links and then accuse others of not understanding the issue.

And don't even think of saying women's football should be paid the same as mens, we'll nip that one in the bud instantly

Since they win far more games and have much greater attendance and a much larger profit margin the women are finally going to be paid the same as the men.
www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/sports/soccer/us-womens-soccer-equality.html

Does anyone know if Munroe Bergdorf got equal pay with Cheryl Cole for their Loreal campaign (before she was fired at least 😆)

Is it fair that the Victoria's Secret Angels get paid more for their annual show than the non angels?

If David Attenborough feels too old to narrate Blue Planet 3 and the BBC hire a young unknown male co narrator, should they get paid the same?

If Jane sells 10 TVs a week at Currys, is never late and Bob only sells 5 TVs and is hungover every Sunday then is Jane entitled to ask for a raise at the end of the year?

What about if Bob sorts his performance out and does just as well as Jane, then Jane gets an offer of a 20% pay rise to go work for a competitor. Are Currys entitled to match that offer and put Jane further ahead if Bob for doing the same job?

@thebewilderness "Since they win far more games and have much greater attendance and a much larger profit margin the women are finally going to be paid the same as the men."

Nice try, does that apply to all national women's teams being more popular and lucrative than the mens teams lol

Funny, I thought Sky and BT paid billions to broadcast mens football, must have been my imagination

Had you read the link as you demand others do you would know the answers to all your questions.

Even pay spines are questionable as they are time based and that one dimension has a limit in justifying a difference. Equal pay means current job, so someone being in it ten versus five years, hard to justify.

The mistake in looking at averages in surveys and saying that's proof of equal pay is that the average is just that, an average. The data points can be a huge range, especially in organisations with broad bands, which is the norm in corporate scores. The lowest paid woman and highest paid man is an equal pay claim waiting to happen. I do risk assessments for companies on this.

The table showing the gap by function by level by company is where we have the biggest problem (despite it being the lowest average) which is going to unravel over the next few years, as this is where it's discriminating on sex, where functions are occupationally segregated on sex, the male dominated ones pay higher than the female dominated ones. This is going to collapse as a defense.

But hey, a journalist copying a pretty table from a Korn Ferry brochure can only guess what is going on behind the data. So let's believe the journalist guessing.

Myself and the QC working on this with me will consult a few journos for an answer!

What do you do for a living fmsfms?

I will not be taking any son of mine to any men’s football matches. Time was it was place you learned a sense of fair play and sportsmanship. Now it’s corrupt to the core it’s just about the money. The players think they can treat anyone particularly women and girls like shit. Sepp Blatter’s comments about increasing viewership of the women’s game by putting them in smallers shorts. I mean honestly fuck that noise and then some.

No I’ll be taking my son to women’s games because there you are more likely to see a genuine love of the game and not just a love of money.

I loved the way the Chelsea women talked after the match last week, such amazing teamwork.

@thebewilderness

I don't need to read a link to know that men's football is almost infinitely more popular worldwide (USA being an exception where it historically was perceived as a girls sport), and thus TV companies are prepared to pay billions for the rights, thus the talent is well compensated.

All irrelevant to discussion at hand though.

Airlines have a wage gap because there are more male pilots than women.

Football clubs have a wage gap because each one has a 22 man first team squad with players on multi million pound contracts.

fmsfms. Do you have a degree in stating the bleeding obvious?

I wonder if I'll ever post a source which isn't immediately dismissed with "bias"

"The table showing the gap by function by level by company is where we have the biggest problem (despite it being the lowest average) which is going to unravel over the next few years, as this is where it's discriminating on sex, where functions are occupationally segregated on sex, the male dominated ones pay higher than the female dominated ones."

I'm really not sure what you're getting at here. The article/Korn Ferry (they're an Executive Search Firm/Headhunters as I suspect you know) is very clear. Pay gap for same job is 1%

"According to data for 8.7m employees worldwide gathered by Korn Ferry, a consultancy, women in Britain make just 1% less than men who have the same function and level at the same employer."

I have never worked anywhere that pays differently to men and women who do the same job.
Can anybody give an example of different pay to men and women who do exactly the same job?

Yes. I have several examples from my own career experience.

Ranging from entry level jobs, right up to senior management jobs.