Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

Yes TwittleBee, it's non stop aggression. There is a good discussion of it going on towards the end of the Jordan Peters thread.

In my opinion your fears are irrational and irrational fears are knows as phobias

When men stop killing and raping women I will agree to call it a phobia. Not gonna happen any time soon is it?

TERFragette trans women aren't men. Including in the eyes of the law. Therefore a fear of your fellow women is irrational.

This thread is a fucking shit show.

Women should just stop justifying themselves to open and aggressive misogynists shouting witch all over the place on a feminist forum.

FWR is the feminist forum on a website for women. Male intruders take up time and space and we should not tolerate their attempts to force compliance to female socialisation upon us. These are the tactics of domestic violence, FFS. Don't provide narcissistic supply.

In my opinion your fears are irrational and irrational fears are knows as phobias.

Yes but you don't value other women's rights to privacy and dignity, so no one will give your opinion much thought, really.

Yes Lang. You are right. IMO certain people have never engaged in good faith here. Let's cut the supply.

Yeh Lang you're right.

It is hard to scroll down past so much guff but I guess it's just a fingertip workout, just breaks up the conversation between genuine posters :/

trans women aren't men. Including in the eyes of the law. Therefore a fear of your fellow women is irrational.

fellow
ˈfɛləʊ/Submit
noun
1.
informal
a man or boy.
"he was an extremely obliging fellow"
synonyms: man, boy; More

TERFragette trans women aren't men.

If transwomen aren't men, then what it is exactly that makes them transwomen?

Get an ignore bin. As soon as you see those posters you have placed in there, scroll past and ignore. They can chat to each other and we can get on with discussing issues that effect women.

Agree

@TwittleBee Anyone here could have summed it up in one tidy nutshell of a paragraph like you just have. And despite what anyone might think, I wouldn't disagree with any of it. You have described our shared problem: Personal issues and social issues don't blend well.

"But what specifically is transphobic on the trans and Self-ID threads on MN, and why do you see them as being transphobic?"

This is the white-hot point of conflict. I don't see them that way. Transphobia? It's not here at all, and if it was I'd have found it during some midnight-oil burning session by now.

What I have found, is an old, familiar sense that the idea of Trans threatens something in everyone (me included) b/c it undermines such a basic human understanding of society. This is not exclusive to MN or Feminists or women. This issue is probably not that younger than society itself. People will resent even having to even try to peer under this bizarre stone, it's too unsettling.

Now we are all forced to turn it over, b/c we are at war.

UK Trans are ~60,000 or so quirky people, most of whom have spent a lifetime getting used to whatever is under that stone, some better than others, but all as individuals, b/c we group together more like a herd of Cats instead of a pack of Dogs. If you see us acting like dogs, then it is b/c we are either fake, or beholden to some damn rottweiler, or both.

Picassospaintbrush you knew what I meant by fellow women but haha very clever

"Get an ignore bin. As soon as you see those posters you have placed in there, scroll past and ignore. They can chat to each other and we can get on with discussing issues that effect women."

If you don't mind me saying, that's rather a jolly damn splendid idea. You could call it the 'Man-Can'.

Thank you for your response MadBadDaddy, I suppose that is the thing with feminists though, they're looking at social issues as they want to ensure all women and girls' rights aren't removed or put on a back burner.

But as for b/c it undermines such a basic human understanding of society - there isn't one society though and so there cant be a "basic" understanding of it because there are so many and all are so different. Currently, GC here are fighting against the constructs of how to be a women/man, which trans-ideology appears to reinforce. Feminists have been fighting to break social constructs rather than reinforcing them and I think this is where a lot of concern lays with trans-ideology.

Then there is the whole separate issue of Self-ID...

Doing that spontaneous, thank you.

I suffered very considerable harm at the hands of a transwomen. While I may not be "phobic" about individuals, I am uncomfortably aware that "feminine" presentation or even living in the community as a woman is not a prophylactic against male aggression toward women.

I would not wish to be unkind to anyone just trying to live their life as best they can, but male violence is a very real threat to women and protection of female rights and spaces is rational and sensible.

Transwomen are demanding of women a degree of trust that is not warranted. The kind of aggressive misogyny displayed by many TRAs does not incline me to believe that allowing them into women's spaces would be wise.

When most strident voices demanding access to women's spaces, are also those talking about hurting TERFs, it's not difficult to see why women are resisting. Indeed, we'd be foolish not to.

Transwomen are demanding of women a degree of trust that is not warranted. The kind of aggressive misogyny displayed by many TRAs does not incline me to believe that allowing them into women's spaces would be wise.

When most strident voices demanding access to women's spaces, are also those talking about hurting TERFs, it's not difficult to see why women are resisting. Indeed, we'd be foolish not to.

This is my position exactly.

I don't want volatile, unstable misogynistic males in female spaces where women are vulnerable and need privacy and dignity. NATALT obviously. But enough are.

Violent misogynistic men don't have a sticker on their heads. We simply don't know which ones are and which ones aren't. Therefore we have to protect ourselves by banning them all from women's spaces.

Personally, I think you only have to look at how such people behave on here and you've got yourself a QED. No insight into their own behaviour whatsoever. No comprehension that every post hangs out yet another red flag of the kind women have spent lifetimes risk managing.

FWR is the feminist forum on a website for women. Male intruders take up time and space and we should not tolerate their attempts to force compliance to female socialisation upon us. These are the tactics of domestic violence, FFS. Don't provide narcissistic supply.

I completely agree that engagement prolongs the conversation, sometimes beyond the point of any real meaning to the FWR participants.

But there will still be lurkers who benefit.

Certainly from this, rather bizarre, thread. They can't fail to grasp the problems that women are talking about, the reasons why, and exactly how they are dealt with.

This thread is an excellent demo of the illogic and hyperbole employed by some proponents of the trans ideology.

But there will still be lurkers who benefit.

I know, I know. But it gets my goat so fucking much to see women actually feeling obliged to justify themselves to these arrogant, entitled dipshits. I need to throw a wobbly about it once in a while.

No fucking pasaran. I'm not having it!

I need to throw a wobbly about it once in a while. Keep throwing them, sometimes we me need to read them to centre us again.

I know Lang. As many women are saying, 'no' should not be the beginning of a negotiation.

But we all know, that to certain men men, it always is.