Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

When interacting with narcissists who cannot conceive of any other interests than their own, it is always worth remembering that any accusation they throw at you about your behaviour is actually an admission about their own behaviour.

Indeed.

Gawd this place is knee deep in straw dollies this morning.

daim
Please stop wasting my time by addressing me directly - your questions are not based on anything I have said and your arguments are non existent. I'm here to listen to intelligent women discussing women's liberation and what threatens it. Not to answer to the demands of fools.

If you can't come up with something worth paying attention to, don't expect to get any more from me.

I can smell desparation.

If people keep flailing the dollies around like this the straw is going to get up someone's nose.

GladAllOver
If I say that I don't want my daughter in a women's changing room to see a person expose their penis in front of her, is that transphobic?

No.

What on earth makes you think it might be?

JoanSummers
I'm here to listen to intelligent women discussing women's liberation and what threatens it.

Then you're on the wrong thread!

"incite hatred of trans people because of their congenital condition"

Congenital?

Tinkletinklelittlebat
Gawd this place is knee deep in straw dollies this morning.
Not surprising, really... the original post was a straw dolly intended keep Mumsnet's pot of transphobia on a rolling boil.

Picassospaintbrush
"incite hatred of trans people because of their congenital condition"
Congenital?
Congenital = a condition that someone is born with
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/congenital

If I say that I don't want my daughter in a women's changing room to see a person expose their penis in front of her, is that transphobic?

No.

What on earth makes you think it might be?

I'd like the reassurance that women's spaces will be protected. Because that doesn't seem to be the case any more.

Wasn't it Swim England who said that some women have penises and if you are uncomfortable seeing them in the female changing room, you need to think again?

Wasn't it Swim England who said that some women have penises and if you are uncomfortable seeing them in the female changing room, you need to think again?

Yes, Stonewall wrote that guidance for them. You need to be educated out of your "phobia", and the poor staff are expected to do that!

Also the TRA whose tweet someone posted upthread about how he felt shy about showing his penis in the women's changing room but liked it being touched.

Wasn't it Swim England who said that some women have penises and if you are uncomfortable seeing them in the female changing room, you need to think again?

In the Trans Inclusion Toolkit for schools discussed in Tuesday's Guardian the example situation and guidance is given:
"My daughter doesn’t want a boy changing next to her,
what if he looks at her body?
For example, in this scenario it would not be appropriate to remove the trans person from the changing rooms if a concern is raised by a parent or carer. In this situation, it would be far more appropriate to look at offering an alternative changing arrangement for the child who feels uncomfortable around the trans person."

Blimey, what's with the TRA's and handmaidens out today?

Troll Thursday comes before Man Friday?

Get a bit of sun and out they come. Whoosh.

Let's get this straight. If a man with a penis, who is attracted to women, goes into a female changing room and shows his penis, it's indecent exposure and punishable as a crime.

If that man identifies as a woman, it's fine. And anyone who thinks otherwise needs to shut up/be re-educated/be removed.

Transphobia versus truth.

Tricky, isn't it? Because truth becomes transphobia with the simple addition of a man telling you so.

Spontaneous I know you think you're helping but your pals on here are willing you to shut up! Unapologetic transphobia like yours doesn't make the rad fems look great.

Women, shut up, know your place and let us do what we want - signed, abusive men.

Wasn't it Swim England who said that some women have penises and if you are uncomfortable seeing them in the female changing room, you need to think again?

Yes. It was also Swim England who said that some men have breasts and should behave modestly by keeping them covered up in men's changing rooms.

I love "the rad fems". It's "those people" for misogynists.