Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

I thought the majority on here were happy to accept these people as women?

I was happy to do so.

The TRA's fucked that up.

^ Same.

JoanSummers I know you feel genuinely frightened but to the outside world your fears seem irrational and irrational fears are known as phobias and having a phobia of a group of people for being born a certain way must feel horrible for you and horrible for them.

Still unsure what the rad fem solution is? Transgender people should simply cease to exist?

daimbars TIM's and TIF's should fight for their own spaces like women did, not appropriate women's hard won efforts. I don't want men, no matter how they present in women's only spaces. Is that so hard to grasp?

Okay spontaneous so what are all the trans woman who have transitioned to female going to do under your proposal? Be forced into male toilets, changing rooms and prisons?

Third spaces. Like they should have had all along. Because it isn't all about them.

daimbars Toilets and changing rooms can have a gender neutral space as well as male and female. TIM's could use those. Prison's have special wings for vulnerable prisoners, TIM's could use those. Women can then keep their own spaces.

And stop using "transitioned" in such a disingenuous way. When it now means "said you are a woman on occasion".

And sadly this is why the concerns over self ID will never be taken seriously when it transpires radical feminists want to banish all trans women with a GRC to a third space.

Why not focus on opposing the new law rather than challenging the existing one?!

It's emotionally so immature it's alarming. Are they seriously so arrogant or just so empathically underdeveloped that they have no concept that other people have different feelings, different needs, different experiences?

Yes, and the best part is that they think they're being righteous by treating other women that way.

daimbars Ok, we allow self ID. TIM's can use all womens facilities, but so can any man who identifies as a woman even if he is not trans. So we are now inviting abuse by men into our safe spaces when we have to deal with them outside of those spaces anyway. Lets put children at risk so TIM's can be validated using our spaces after all who gives a shit about young girls when we have TIM feelz to consider?

There is nothing wrong with a third space, by inviting anyone on the bloody planet into our spaces with the magic words "I am a woman" is wrong.

Yes, and the best part is that they think they're being righteous by treating other women that way.

YY.

I know you feel genuinely frightened but to the outside world your fears seem irrational and irrational fears are known as phobias and having a phobia of a group of people for being born a certain way must feel horrible for you and horrible for them.

This is gaslighting.

Stop it.

JoanSummers the outside world agrees with you but no politician seems to? People come on here saying they are scared to 'come out' on Facebook as gender critical? All the LGBT charities embrace trans people.

Mumsnet is pretty much the only place you will find people agreeing with you. Ask pretty much anyone in RL who is not a rad fem if they accept trans people as the gender they feel they are and they will say yes and move on.

pencils are you saying the law is gaslighting us all?!

Trans women are not men!

Share that graph showing trans women commuting those crimes and I will start to take you seriously.

*committing dammit

I have, and they agree with me, not you. Sometimes I haven't even had to ask because the way people respond to trans women makes it perfectly clear that others don't consider them women.

I. don't. want. men. in. my. spaces. I want. to. be. safe.

People come on here saying they are scared to 'come out' on Facebook as gender critical?

I wonder why that could be?

daimbars Trans crimes in the UK

The problem is, once any man can self ID as a woman - then that lets any/all the men on that graph into female spaces - which is what we don't want.

We want to stop self ID becoming law - because it literally opens the door for any man to enter female spaces. And if you have a look at the average Times reader, average Daily Mail reader, the comments left under articles - you'll know it's not just radfems on mumsnet.